The architecture, engineering and construction industry is severely lagging behind in diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI). Black workers represent 13% of the industry’s workforce but only hold 7% of its jobs. Meanwhile, white workers comprise 77% of the workforce and hold over 80% of all AEC jobs.
AEC Unites, a nonprofit membership organization, was founded in 2023 to advance DEI in the industry. The organization seeks to be a resource for Black talent to identify career paths and leadership opportunities and to create sustainable opportunities for Black-owned businesses to grow and thrive.
In this episode, Michelle Calcote King invites AEC Unites Executive Director Tia Perry to discuss the organization’s mission and ongoing initiatives to help workers and businesses and reflect on the challenges AEC firms face in closing diversity gaps.
(Editor’s note: This interview was recorded in November 2023 and published in 2024. When Michelle and Tia say “this year” and “next year,” they’re referring to 2023 and 2024, respectively.)
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
-
Who Tia Perry is
-
About AEC Unites and the organization’s mission
-
AEC Unites’ ongoing initiatives, including for Black talent, Black-owned businesses and student populations
-
DEI issues that are prominent in the AEC industry
-
What resources exist for workers and businesses
-
How diversity gaps can impact a company’s safety culture
-
How to improve hiring, advancement and retention practices
-
Impacts of unconscious bias on hiring and promotion practices, including during succession planning
About our featured guest
A diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) leader with over 17 years of association experience, Tia Perry is tasked with bringing the vision for AEC Unites to life by driving equity and inclusion for Black talent and Black-owned businesses in the architecture, engineering and construction community.
Tia led DEI initiatives as a director at Associated Builders and Contractors (ABC), providing consultative support and leadership to ABC chapters and member companies. Perry began her association career in 2015 with the Transportation Intermediaries Association.
Tia is an enthusiastic mentor, volunteer and training partner in skilled trades education with the D.C. Construction Trades Foundation and is a youth basketball coach. She earned a bachelor’s degree in psychology from Old Dominion University and recently completed the diversity, equity and inclusion certificate program at the University of South Florida. Perry is also a certified unconscious bias trainer through FranklinCovey.
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Tia Perry: It can't be something that you visit once a year or that you check a box.
[00:00:07] Announcer: Welcome to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now let's get started with the show.
[00:00:24] Michelle Calcote King: Hi, and welcome back to "Spill the Ink." I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host, and I'm also the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for architecture, engineering, and construction firms, and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
Diversity, equity and inclusion are incredibly important across all industries, but some industries in particular, and that's especially true for architecture, engineering and construction. And while many firms are steadily working to improve their DEI, there's still a long way to go in pursuit of equity.
So I'm really excited today. We're going to talk to the executive director of AEC Unites. It's a nonprofit membership organization that was founded [in 2023]. To increase intentional opportunities for Black talent and Black-owned businesses in the AEC industry. So Tia Perry is the executive director and I'm excited to have you here.
[00:01:21] Tia Perry: Thank you, Michelle, for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:01:24] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. Well, let's step back and just tell me a little bit about AEC Unites and why it was founded and then, you know, how you got involved.
[00:01:32] Tia Perry: Sure. So AEC Unites, as you mentioned, it's a newly formed association of business leaders, companies and organizations really devoted to advancing diversity, equity and inclusion throughout the architecture, engineering and construction space. And as you said earlier, our mission is to really facilitate intentional opportunities for Black talent and Black-owned businesses in the AEC space.
I started in March of [2023], but the organization, I would say, conversation started about in 2020 shortly after the murder of George Floyd. And collectively, several top AEC leaders started having conversations about how do we do more in this space to really advance DEI? How do we leverage our resources and our best practices to really drive change? And that's ultimately how AEC Unites was formed.
[00:02:20] Michelle Calcote King: I love it. I love to see it. Our other industry that we work with is law firms, and I've seen a lot of diversity, equity, inclusion efforts in the legal industry, but it hasn't been as prevalent in AEC. So seeing this is really exciting.
Give me a little bit of a flavor in terms of what are some of those things that you're doing. Let's just jump into some of the initiatives and how you're working to improve the state in the industry.
[00:02:44] Tia Perry: Sure, sure, sure. So our board has adopted a strategic plan that you can find on our website. And our two main focus areas are talent and really diversifying the talent pipeline, specifically in Black communities because of the lack of representation. And then our other pillar of focus on really empowering Black-owned businesses to help build capacity and create sustainable opportunities for them. And so we formed two working committees comprised of industry leaders, a very diverse group of architects, engineers and contractors to lead our business and talent committee.
Our goal as it relates to Black businesses is to really create sustainable opportunities. To really support their growth, help them compete in the marketplace. And, you know, there's several initiatives that fall under that objective. One is producing a playbook for clients on how to procure sustainable opportunities to work with Black-owned businesses. We have plans to create a robust database of Black-owned firms. I don't know of a firm that represents Black-owned AEC firms, right? I think there's the Black Chamber of Commerce and some other organizations, but different verticals, different industries. So we wanted to create a database where our business partners, our primes, our users, our developers, whoever can go into this database and learn more about Black-owned firms in the nation.
[00:04:08] Michelle Calcote King: Fantastic.
Let's talk a little bit about why this industry in particular seems to have less representation in terms of minorities, especially an industry that is facing such a labor challenge. What are some of the reasons that this industry has this challenge?
[00:04:23] Tia Perry: I think historically there's a lot of misconceptions about the AEC space, right?
And I know in my personal experience growing up, it wasn't a career that my parents advocated for. And it wasn't until I landed at ABC, the Associated Builders and Contractors, and I started to learn more about the opportunities that I was really interested in the trades, right? And so prior to that, I was told armed forces, four years of college or the federal government. And so there was really this innocent ignorance, and I'm sure if it happened with my, you know, educated parents, that there's a lot of households that simply don't encourage a career in this space, and so I think there's a lot of exposure, opportunities and a lot of mentoring that needs to happen to really evolve. And we desperately need mentors that look like the communities in which we serve, Black and brown mentors, and that's why ACE mentorship is so very important. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that organization, but a great organization does a lot of work in this space. And so I think there's a lot to peel back, but I think it starts with just the misconception of the industry.
[00:05:29] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. Yeah. I could see how the generational having your parents tied to a certain industry, understanding of the industry plays into that.
So there's a lot of talk right now about getting students interested in the trades. What are some ways that you're targeting students?
[00:05:46] Tia Perry: So we are starting with partnerships with historical Black colleges and universities. I think we've identified five that we're working on, and really fostering relationships with those organizations so that when a student graduates and they have an interest in the A, the E, or the C, there are career opportunities available and we have this pipeline of young, fresh talent with great ideas and that are innovative that are entering our industry.
So we also recognize that, you know, these conversations start at a much younger age, right? I think K-12, third grade. There was a study I saw that third grade seems to be that year where you're applying logic to your decisions and things of that nature. So we recognize as an association, there are a lot of great organizations out there that are promoting and advancing ACE and STEM careers, and we don't want to reinvent the wheel, Michelle. Honestly, we can't, and there's no need to. What we want to do is really unite the organizations and the resources that are out there so there's a pathway for students or parents or guidance counselors or aunties or uncles or whoever may have a student interested in the trades or, you know, to be an engineer that we have this pathway available and it's crystal clear that these are the resources that are available.
And the board talked about developing an app that would serve as a resource. And so I could go into the app, plug in my zip code and my child's age, and if there's any ACE or STEM career day or engineering day, whatever related to my demographic would pull. And so there's one central location for resources for folks that are interested in the AEC industry.
[00:07:27] Michelle Calcote King: Fantastic. I was looking at your resources for businesses and one of them is a playbook on how to work with Black-owned businesses. Can you talk to me about that and why that's important and what are some of the ways it helps?
[00:07:38] Tia Perry: Yeah, absolutely. So AEC Unites was founded by Deryl McKissack. She's really the brainchild. And Deryl tells a story about how she's often hired for projects. She's hired, she meets the participation goal as far as a minority participation, and then, oftentimes, she'll scale up her business, she'll do an amazing job, and there's never a call back for any sustainable projects.
[00:08:03] Michelle Calcote King: Interesting.
[00:08:04] Tia Perry: And so in her experience, we really want to provide equitable resources for our contractors and our architects and our engineers to win work and really rise on their own merit and to have sustainable opportunities. The committee is working on a playbook, which I think will be published probably [in 2024]. That'll outline some of the disparities as it relates to Black-owned businesses, the current landscape, some best practices as far as supplier diversity or training or technical assistance programs. But really be very intentional with procuring sustainable opportunities for Black-owned firms.
[00:08:42] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, very interesting.
One of the other interesting things I saw — I think it was in the press release where it was announcing the organization — was the impact that a lack of diversity can have on safety on construction sites. And it was something I'd never really thought about, that if there is, you know, a lack of understanding, respect, camaraderie between people on a job site, that that can really contribute to that.
Is the organization aiming to help organizations like within their existing workforce with DEI training and awareness and education?
[00:09:13] Tia Perry: I think our role is to really unify the opportunities that already exist. And there absolutely is a correlation between total human health and mental health and diversity, equity and inclusion. And there's numerous studies about the importance of fostering that sense of belonging; how that really complements a healthy safety culture. And so what we want to do is not serve as a training program, but really unite the resources that are available so that there's one central location folks can go to our website and learn about different training opportunities whether that's bonding, you know, capacity building or estimating, whatever the case may be, but there's one central location. But we don't want to serve as a trainer, but ultimately unify what's out there and have one central location for resources.
[00:10:03] Michelle Calcote King: And just the increase of diversity in the workforce will, will improve those outcomes by the fact of having greater diversity. So yeah, that's really cool.
[00:10:12] Tia Perry: Absolutely.
[00:10:12] Michelle Calcote King: That's really great.
[00:10:13] Tia Perry: Yeah, I studied the numbers quite a bit and I have them pulled up right here. And so the latest numbers for Blacks and African Americans make up 6.7-percent of architects, engineers and contractors. Women make up 26.3-percent of architects and engineers and other related services. And then 10.9-percent is the latest number for women in construction. So--
[00:10:37] Michelle Calcote King: Interesting.
[00:10:38] Tia Perry: --definitely a lack of representation amongst, you know, Black and African American women, Asian. Yes, there's a lot of work that needs to be done.
[00:10:48] Michelle Calcote King: Let's say there's an executive in the C-suite of an AEC company that understands the importance of DEI and, you know, wants to change their hiring, their advancement, their retention practices.
What advice could you give to that executive wanting to improve their own workforce?
[00:11:04] Tia Perry: Yeah, that's actually a great question, Michelle. And I always lead by saying there isn't a one-size-shoe-that-fits-all. You know, depending on where an organization is on the spectrum, it's going to vary based on their unique needs. But there are a few key takeaways.
To start, there has to be a strong commitment from leadership and a commitment to diversity and inclusion at all levels of the organization, but it can't be something that you visit once a year. Or that you check a box. I think it's important for leaders to really amplify and communicate the importance of DEI and how it'll make their teams more innovative and more creative. And really the business case: it'll help them win work. I think that's a key point.
I think it's also important to know your metrics and kind of your baseline so that you can make data-driven decisions, right? And so identify where your disparities are, whether that may be with retention, or hiring, or advancements, whatever the case may be, but know what your data points are, constantly review your data points, and then identify where your gaps, your barriers may be, and just continue to push forward.
[00:12:17] Michelle Calcote King: Let's talk about unconscious bias. How does that impact hiring and promotion practices?
[00:12:23] Tia Perry: Good question. I'll start by saying that we all have biases, right? They're normal. We all have a preference in favor of one group of people, or one place, or a particular person. But unconscious is really expressed indirectly and something that we're not aware of.
And so it's important for us to identify what our biases are and how they impact our decisions, how they impact and influence our teams, and ultimately our behaviors, right? And I think it's important for organizations if they haven't invested in an unconscious bias trainer or DEI facilitator to come in and do an audit of their hiring, their retention practices. I think that's a great start.
There's also some great resources on ConstructionInclusionWeek.com. The [Inclusion] Maturity Model that I share quite a bit. And so there's some resources there as well, but definitely invest in the training, invest in your employee resource groups, if you have them, I think they're great advocates for minority groups.
[00:13:28] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, if you haven't ever either heard a presenter on unconscious bias or gone through that kind of training, it is really eye opening. I think it's really important for anyone who hasn't done it.
The other issue that this industry is facing is succession planning. You know, this is impacting many industries right now, but especially in this industry. What advice do you have for companies kind of facing this sort of generational issue and starting to want to look toward the future and succession planning and want to prioritize diversity in those transitions?
[00:13:59] Tia Perry: I would say, again, start with the strategy and the metrics, right? So what does your pipeline look like for leadership opportunities? And if you've identified where you have a lack of diversity, really be intentional with empowering that particular minority group. So I would say it starts with a strategy, right? And maybe, again, I think everyone should invest in some sort of professional facilitator or a DEI strategist or a practitioner to come in. But identify your pipeline, who's in the pipeline and ensure that you are providing equitable resources for everyone on your team to advance.
[00:14:40] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
I'm glad you mentioned Construction Inclusion Week. Is that something that the organization plans to be heavily involved with? Do you have any plans for those kinds of activities?
[00:14:50] Tia Perry: Yeah, there's sort of great alignment. So there's a lot of overlap in our followers. And so a lot of the leaders and founders of Construction Inclusion Week are also the founders of AEC Unites, and so we absolutely want to collaborate. We're fairly new kicking it off. I think we launched a few weeks before Construction Inclusion Week [in 2023], but we definitely want to help spread awareness about the importance of DEI, particularly in the construction space, and collaborate with the industry on this amazing initiative. So, I refer folks to the website all the time. Quite a few of our members have signed up for the resources through Construction Inclusion Week, and so we do plan to help collaborate on those efforts.
[00:15:30] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, it seems like it's getting traction — from someone that follows the industry pretty well — got some really, really big companies that are involved.
[00:15:37] Tia Perry: Yeah, I think so too. I started a couple years ago with the Associated Builders and Contractors for the first inaugural — I think it was 2020 — that was the first inaugural year. And there's been great traction. If you look at the participation, the resources have definitely improved over the years and it's just great assets on the website that are free of charge that anyone could take advantage of. So I think there's great momentum and it's just. important to continue that throughout October, you know, on your day-to-day, you know, job sites and things of that nature.
[00:16:09] Michelle Calcote King: Thank you so much for this overview. And if there's one sort of important lesson or thought that you would like listeners to take away about AEC Unites, what would it be?
[00:16:18] Tia Perry: Come join us on this mission. We are a new organization and so we have some really, really aggressive goals and we really want our members to lean in. So the ask is to join AEC Unites, get involved and engage with either our business or our talent committee to help us move this mission forward. Collectively, we're so much stronger and better together and we know this. And so my ask is to just to support, lean in and help us move the needle forward.
[00:16:46] Michelle Calcote King: And, sorry I have one more question that comes up from that. Who would be the person who would join? Do you join as an organization or are you looking for--
Okay, so it's organizational membership?
[00:16:56] Tia Perry: Membership is held at the company level, but we have a very diverse group of-- I mean there's some CEOs that are involved, there's some project managers, there's some estimators. A very diverse group as far as who the leaders are that represent the companies. I would say it's a lot of like C-suite leaders, but as far as the committees and the action groups and the boots on the ground, typically those are the estimators, the project managers, the supplier diversity leaders. Very, very diverse group of architects, engineers and contractors.
[00:17:29] Michelle Calcote King: Great. Fantastic. Well, we've been talking to Tia Perry with AEC Unites. So Tia, if people want to reach out to you touch base with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
[00:17:37] Tia Perry: The best way to communicate with me is via email. My email is Tia.Perry@AECUnites.org. You can also find us on LinkedIn and Instagram. So find us on your social media chat platforms and engage. And thank you so much, Michelle, again, for having me.
[00:17:58] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, thanks for being with me.
[00:18:01] Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink.
We'll see you again next time and be sure to click "Subscribe" to get future episodes.
<< BACK TO ALL EPISODES