In this episode of “Spill the Ink,” Michelle Calcote King speaks with Amanda Waesch, who chairs marketing and business development at Brennan, Manna & Diamond (BMD), about navigating work-life balance in the demanding legal profession. Amanda shares her experiences developing her firm's inaugural maternity policy, advocating for flexible work arrangements and building authentic relationships with clients that respect boundaries.
The conversation explores how law firms can better support women's careers through progressive policies, the importance of setting expectations with clients and practical strategies for maintaining professional excellence while prioritizing personal commitments. Amanda offers valuable insights for attorneys at all career stages on bringing their authentic selves to work while establishing healthy boundaries.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
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How to establish healthy boundaries with clients by building authentic relationships that allow for mutual respect and clear expectations.
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The importance of flexible work policies in law firms, including part-time arrangements and supportive maternity leave for both women and men.
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Strategies for saying “no” effectively while still maintaining excellent client relationships and personal well-being.
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How mentorship and transparency with junior attorneys help create cultures that support work-life balance in high-pressure legal environments.
About our featured guest
Amanda Waesch serves as Brennan, Manna & Diamond's Marketing and Business Development Chair. She operates a national healthcare practice, focusing on healthcare, employment law, corporate law and healthcare litigation. Waesch advises all types of employers on various matters, particularly healthcare providers including hospitals and physicians.
She chairs the firm's litigation team, which is responsible for handling all reimbursement audits and appeals for healthcare clients and heads up BMD's Provider Relations, Audit, Appeals and Negotiations Unit (PRAAN). This unit manages all-payer audits, appeals, overpayments and payment extrapolations.
Waesch has practiced law since 2008 and is licensed in Florida, Ohio and Tennessee.
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
Disclaimer: What you’re reading is an AI-transcribed version of our podcast. It may contain mistakes, including spelling and grammar errors.
[00:00:00] Amanda Waesch: I think that when you get to know your clients personally and they get to know you, they respect boundaries, and you have to set that expectation as well. I'm not going to be calling them at six in the morning. They shouldn't be calling me at six in the morning. So we respect each other unless it's an emergency, of course, but we respect each other and we set the expectations and the boundaries.
[00:00:24] Announcer: Welcome to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
[00:00:40] Michelle Calcote King: Hi, and welcome to Spill the Inc. I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host, and I'm also the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and thought leadership marketing agency for B2B professional services firms, including law firms. To learn more, go to www.rep-ink.com.
So in an industry where success is often measured in six-minute increments and billable hours, navigating work-life balance can feel like walking a tightrope, especially as a woman in the legal field. And today we have Amanda Waesch of Brennan, Manna & Diamond joining us for candid conversation about learning to set boundaries, coming to work as your most authentic self and ways law firms can better support women's careers. Amanda chairs the marketing and business development at Brennan, Manna & Diamond, where she leads the firm's national healthcare practice so she knows a little bit about work-life balance. Licensed in Ohio, Florida, and Tennessee, Amanda primarily focuses her practice on healthcare employment law, corporate law and healthcare litigation. She advises all types of employers, but healthcare providers in particular on various matters. So thank you for joining me to talk about this.
[00:01:52] Amanda Waesch: Thanks for having me.
[00:01:54] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. So tell me a little bit about your dual role in the firm. I'd like to understand that a little bit more.
[00:02:00] Amanda Waesch: Sure. So primarily I'm an attorney. I'm a member, I'm an owner in the firm. And I'm a healthcare attorney. I love what I do and that is what I do during the day, sometimes on the evenings and weekends. But then my other role besides just being an attorney at the firm is also as vice president, where I oversee marketing and business development opportunities. We have a tremendous department that is comprised of three business development and marketing individuals and an admin. And they handle all things marketing and business development for our 100-plus attorneys throughout the United States. And then I'm also a mom to three wonderful children and a wife to my amazing husband.
[00:02:54] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, so you have a very busy life. So this is going to be an interesting conversation and I love how you talked about your biz dev and marketing team. So tell me about how, you know, the changes you're seeing in law firms. So obviously it's been a bit of an uphill battle with law firms for women especially. So what are you seeing with law firms in terms of flexibility and work-life balance, and how has it changed in the years since you've been in the industry?
[00:03:26] Amanda Waesch: I can only speak to my own firm, Brennan, Manna & Diamond, and the amazing platform that they have built for female attorneys. And our motto at BMD is that you can be as big or as small as you want to be, and there is a place for everyone. And I truly believe that we espouse those values and we can provide really solid examples of amazing female attorneys at our firm because of the platform that we provide. So one of the things that we provide is the ability to be part-time, the ability to work from home. We also have a very flexible maternity leave policy for attorneys. They can take as much time as they want. Understanding that that could have some ramifications on salary and bonus, but female attorneys are given that opportunity and so are male attorneys, frankly. So we do offer those flexibilities and we have amazing female attorneys that are vice presidents. Our general counsel is a female attorney, but we also have tremendous part-time attorneys that are doing as well or better than some full-time attorneys. So we really want to give everyone the platform to be their authentic self, as you mentioned, and then also their successful self.
[00:04:50] Michelle Calcote King: I love that. So obviously your firm is doing a lot of right things. As you look out at the industry, what do you think still needs to change? Or is there anything that you're noting that, you know, where there's still work to be done?
[00:05:08] Amanda Waesch: There's always work to be done. I like to stay away from quotas or saying this is what leadership should look like or should reflect. I measure our firm's success. I look at — well not just me, but our leadership team and our admin team. We look at the communities that we serve and where we're located, and are we reflective of those communities, the clients that we serve, are we reflective of those clients that we serve? And then who's going to law school? We pay very close attention to who's going to law school now. We have more females than males that are graduating law school. We have more minorities that are going to law school and graduating law school and our summer associate program is reflective of who's going to law school and who's coming out into the workforce. And so for us, I think that that is how we're measuring success. Is, are we reflective of what is happening in the world around us and who we're serving and where we're located.
[00:06:19] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. And do you feel, you know, I just had this great conversation with another guest who was really sort of trying to change the perception that the legal industry is behind the times in marketing. Do you feel that the legal industry is still behind the times in terms of how it supports women? Or do you feel like that perception is still warranted?
[00:06:46] Amanda Waesch: I don't necessarily feel like the legal profession is behind the times. At least I don't personally feel that way. When I walk into a room, I don't feel like it's male dominated. When I walk into a courtroom, oftentimes, you know, there's a 50% chance that there's going to be a female on that bench. I do a lot of administrative appellate work. I feel comfortable walking into the situations that I walk into, whether it's representing my clients or going to a meeting or a pitch. I don't feel like the legal industry is necessarily behind the times. Now, there could be some law firms that are. But that is something that they need to reflect upon if they want to stay in the industry.
[00:07:34] Michelle Calcote King: Right, because I think the stats are that more women than men are either, and I don't know for sure. I shouldn't quote something that I don't know for sure right now, but I thought I saw somewhere that more women than men are at least applying to law school or maybe just graduating from law school.
[00:07:50] Amanda Waesch: And graduating.
[00:07:51] Michelle Calcote King: Okay. Yes. Thank you. You're absolutely right. Yeah, which is exciting. So, and then providing these paths for women to have this flexibility is very exciting. Because women do face a unique challenge with childcare. So I love to hear it. So tell me about that experience of being in your firm 15 years ago and the firm just not having a maternity policy. And I get that. I own a company and I too went through that experience of having an employee and not having a maternity policy in place and sort of going, oh, okay. I have to come up with this. So yeah, tell me about that.
[00:08:32] Amanda Waesch: Sure. So our firm is going to celebrate its 25th anniversary this year, which we're really excited about. So when our firm started 25 years ago, there were only seven attorneys. And those attorneys were married and already had had their children. Their children were very young, so they didn't think about the need for a maternity policy because it just wasn't necessary at the time. They had other things they were thinking about. And so when I joined, I was the first associate, the first female in the firm to become pregnant. And they were like, well we need to work on a policy. So work on it with us. And which was really refreshing. I actually ended up having a high-risk pregnancy. So I had emergency surgery at 19 weeks and was put on bedrest, which wasn't expected. And that was 15 years ago. So before Zoom and Skype and what we're doing now. So I had to have people courier files to my house. We had to set up remote access because that was the time when I was coming into work Monday through Saturday, because that was the culture then. And the firm was very supportive during my maternity leave and I went on to have two more children after that, where I was on bedrest. And I feel that for me, I had the sufficient support and time off with my newborn. And then I also was very supported when I came back to work.
[00:10:00] Michelle Calcote King: That's fantastic. Yeah. And bringing you into that is really important. So I love to hear that. Tell me about how the part-time structure is working and how it's sort of influencing the culture at the firm.
[00:10:16] Amanda Waesch: Sure. So we have a number of female and male attorneys, frankly, that are part-time. So I don't want it to seem like it's just female that have to be part-time. We do have male attorneys as well, and really it's about the group that they work with and the team that they work with and are we meeting the employees' needs? So the employee may need to only bill 900 hours a year or work two days in the office and one day at home. Whatever their needs are, but does that need also support the need for their team? I can tell you on my team, I have a part-time attorney who is just killing it. And I love working with her, but I also respect that she's going to bill 900 hours a year and that's what I need. And that works for her and her family. And it's really great. And we have those open conversations. I check in with her. She checks in with me. And I know that all of the other teams that have part-time attorneys do so as well. And we have part-time admins and paralegals and it works for us because there's dialogue back and forth.
[00:11:26] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. So it's about that open communication. What would you say to someone who says, oh, that just can't work. You know, clients are never going to understand that, or you need to be on call, or this is not the industry for that. Have you had that debate? Is there an answer to that in this industry?
[00:11:47] Amanda Waesch: Yes, absolutely. I give you a great example. I am very open with my clients about what's important to me, but I also ask my clients what's important to them so I know how many kids my clients have. I know what they like to do for fun. They know about me. And so I think that when you get to know your clients personally, and they get to know you, they respect boundaries. And you have to set that expectation as well. I'm not going to be calling them at six in the morning. They shouldn't be calling me at six in the morning. So we respect each other unless it's an emergency, of course, but we respect each other and we set the expectations and the boundaries. I have had people say to me, well, that's just not going to work. And that's fine. If that is not what's going to work for them, then our relationship won't, it's not going to work going forward. So maybe somebody else would be better. And that comes with some age and experience. So it's not like I learned that the first year practicing law, I learned it over time. But a really good example is I was working on a deal and opposing counsel was on vacation in London with his family and my client was very motivated to get the deal done. His client was very motivated to get the deal done. But his client was pushing very hard for him to get it done. And I knew that he was working in the middle of the night because he was in London and expecting me to also turn documents as quickly as he was. And I called him and I said, listen, I'm not going to respond to you for three days. You got three days left of your vacation, I'm not going to respond to you. Go enjoy your vacation with your family. Tell your client blame it on me, that we're the delay. But I said, this is not, this is not healthy. This isn't healthy for you or your family. And at the end of the day, the deal got done. Nobody remembers that three-day delay, but sometimes it's just about putting things in perspective that no one was going to be harmed by him just taking a breather for three days because by him working in the middle of the night, he wasn't doing good work anyway. And he wasn't present with his family, and that was him not being honest with his team. You know, whoever he was reporting to and his client.
[00:14:10] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. Well that actually sets me up really well for the last topic I wanted to ask you, which is boundaries and saying No, and I think that is so critical to this work-life balance and something that especially high achievers have difficulties with. So you want to be excellent, you want to meet your clients' needs, you want to deliver great service. So it is often challenging to do what you just did. How do you find that line and learn to do that? And I'm sure you've mentored junior attorneys. How do you help them find that balance?
[00:15:03] Amanda Waesch: That's a great question. Saying yes is easier than saying no. I'm at a point now in my life where I have the opportunity to work a bajillion hours, which I love to do. I'm so grateful to have lots of opportunities to speak, to meet with clients, to do all the things. But I also am at a point in my life where my kids are, they're in sports and they have activities and games and things that I just don't want to miss because I can't get that back. And that's a choice that I made and I'm so grateful that I made the choice to go to the game versus go speak at this event. And that took me a while to figure out. It took me a couple years to figure out. And when I finally did, I just felt this sense of relief. So now it's something that I tell attorneys and clients, you know, this is how I've grown as a person and a professional, and it's really great and it's empowering. For younger attorneys, we don't always have that freedom. And I don't always have that freedom with clients. Like sometimes I have to miss something of my children because someone I have an IRS audit or a very important deadline that I have to meet. And that's life. And that's what I teach my children as well. Like sometimes we have to do things because that's what's expected of us and we have to make those choices. But for the younger attorneys, I encourage them to be very open with me. You know, can you meet this deadline? And if you can't, let's figure out how we can work around it or is there another solution. And so having that dialogue with them to help them with their time management, help them with their work-life balance and not feel overwhelmed as much because they are going to feel overwhelmed and stressed. But I think having that conversation with them and checking in with them is really important. And I learned that because I had really great mentors that checked in on me and they still do so.
[00:17:05] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I love that. And that's great that you can provide that guidance and those learnings a little bit to the people coming up. So, and help them as they navigate that. So they're lucky to have that. So what if you had one final thought to leave our listeners with, what would it be?
[00:17:29] Amanda Waesch: Well, if you are a female and you want to go to law school and you want to become an attorney, definitely do it. It's very empowering. I love what I do. I love being a healthcare attorney in particular. I never imagined that I would be where I'm at today. So looking back on the journey as to how I got here, it's really, it's a great reflection and I'm probably halfway through my career, so I really am looking forward to the second half of my career. Once my kids are in college and they're grown, I really, I feel like the sky is the limit. So I hope that for anyone who's listening, that they can be inspired to do what they love and to go out and achieve their goals. And when they look back at what they've done, they feel the same way, that they feel very self-fulfilled and satisfied.
[00:18:26] Michelle Calcote King: I love that. That's a big testimonial for Brennan, Manna & Diamond too, it sounds like. So sounds like a great place to work. So thank you very much. We've been talking to Amanda Waesch of Brennan, Manna & Diamond. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:18:43] Amanda Waesch: Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:18:48] Announcer: Thanks for listening to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click subscribe to get future episodes.
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