With so many law firms vying for attention in today’s hyper-competitive market, it can be hard to stand out among the crowd. Answering Legal, a company providing 24/7 answering services for law firms, has found success using partnership and video marketing strategies to amplify its reach and connect with its audiences.
In this episode of Spill the Ink, Michelle Calcote King sits down with Nick Werker, Answering Legal’s marketing director. They talk about how Answering Legal joins forces with other businesses in the legal industry to create marketing campaigns that cater to the diverse needs of their shared audiences. They also discuss Answering Legal’s “Lawyer’s Guide to 2023,” which, for the first time, featured a collection of short video clips in addition to written content.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
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What partnership marketing is
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How collaborating with industry-adjacent companies can result in more effective marketing campaigns
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How video has changed the legal marketing landscape
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How Answering Legal's 2023 Lawyer's Guide combines written and video content to deliver more value to lawyers
About our featured guest
Nick Werker is the marketing director at Answering Legal, leveraging nearly a decade of marketing experience and adeptness for customer-centric messaging to progress the company’s strategic campaigns. He’s also the host of Answering Legal’s Everything Except the Law podcast, where he interviews legal experts about legal marketing, public relations, legal tech, wellness and more.
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Nick Werker: People were so excited, they were like, "This is so cool. I can't wait to see this come out. What else can I do? Do you want my help promoting it? Can we talk longer?" Again, it's one of those things that I think has gotten content creators and marketers back into having fun with marketing again.
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[00:00:24]: Welcome to Spill the Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
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[00:00:41] Michelle Calcote King: Hey, everyone. I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host, and I'm also the Principal and President of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to Rep-ink.com.
Today, we're going to talk about social media, and there was a time when law firms resisted the idea of being on social media, but obviously, that's drastically changed over the years.The American Bar Association put out a legal technology survey finding that 89% of law firms have a social media presence today with LinkedIn leading the ranks as the most popular platform for attorneys. Social media is truly one of those load-bearing pillars when it comes to developing an effective legal marketing strategy. The problem is the market is saturated and cutting through the noise to boost engagement and visibility is harder than ever, so incorporating video marketing into your firm's social media strategy is a fantastic way to stand out.
I'm excited today to welcome Nick Werker to today's Spill the Ink Show.He's the marketing director at Answering Legal, where he successfully integrated videography into a number of their marketing efforts, including the recently released Lawyers' Guide to 2023, which I was very honored to be a part of. Thanks for having me today.
[00:01:59] Nick: Thanks for inviting me.
[00:02:01] Michelle: Or, thanks for joining me. [laughs]
[00:02:02] Nick: I know what you meant.
[00:02:04] Michelle: I'm so used to being the guest on these podcasts.
[00:02:06] Nick: That's right. No, I appreciate you having me on here, and it's always great working with you. That's why we reached out for the Lawyers Guide and you're talking my language, so I'm just excited to have a conversation with you.
[00:02:17] Michelle: Same here. Actually, I know our producer Sofia directed us to talk a little bit about video and social media, but I also really want to talk about the concept of partnership marketing, which, it's interesting a lot of people don't use that term a lot, but it's actually incredibly effective and it's one of the things you guys have been really effective in doing, and I've always admired. Let's back up and if you can just tell me a little bit about Answering Legal and your role there.
[00:02:48] Nick: Sure. Answering Legal is a…I'll call us a specialized answering service exclusively for law firms and legal professionals. We have a few agencies that provide paralegal services and so on and so forth. But our bread and butter is small to midsize law firms. What we do is we're a 24/7 call center, really, but we train our receptionist to be your legal receptionist.
They're trained in when to patch a call over to you, when to take a message from an existing client, how to speak with a new client, how to perform a legal intake, so on and so forth. We really try to serve as an extension of the firm, which is why we're constantly developing new features and giving our receptionists-- Our main goal is to empower our receptionist to do the best job for the law firms, if that makes sense.
[00:03:42] Michelle: No, it's great. It's a great niche. Do you have a specific type of law firm or size of law firm that y'all are best suited for, or is it really any law firm?
[00:03:52] Nick: I would say the people that are drawn to us the most are really the volume-based B2C type of law firm. I'm talking criminal defense attorneys, family lawyers, bankruptcy, personal injury, anybody doing civil litigation on the client's side, and really anybody who has a need to answer the phone call when the potential client calls because — we've done extensive research on this — but I can tell just off the top of my head that I don't leave a voicemail for a business anymore.
I know that legal problems are really usually uncomfortable and people want a quick solution and a quick answer so if you don't answer that phone and you let them go to voicemail, they're just going to call a competitor. If you have the type of business where people aren't going to wait for you to call them back with a problem, that's when you call us.
[00:04:47] Michelle: That makes a lot of sense. You've got to nail that touchpoint, so to speak, or else that opportunity is lost.
That's great. Let's start out with before we get into social and video partnership marketing. To me, I define partnership marketing as just finding like-minded or similarly situated companies that target your space, your same audience space, but aren't competitive. Tell me how you guys approach that at Answering Legal.
[00:05:26] Nick: One of the smartest things I ever heard was that smart people don't have original thoughts and you don't really have to. If somebody else is doing something successful, you can adapt it and give it your own, I don't know, twist. There's a guy who is in legal marketing who I really, really respect. He has thousands of customers. I was at one of his webinars because I just love the way that he markets himself, and I'm always trying to learn new tactics. He was pitching this webinar on partnership marketing. The reason being that you want to have a more attractive offer than your competitors.
Now the way that he phrased this to the audience was he gave the example of a personal injury attorney who specializes in car accidents, should, or could, partner with the local chiropractor or physical therapist so that if you call me for a consultation and you end up hiring me for my services, that comes with one free visit to your local chiropractor to get an assessment or an adjustment or physical therapy for a back injury or whatever injury you have.
That made so much sense to me because like you said, it's somebody who's not a competitor, but can also really enhance what I have to offer, my service. That's why we've partnered with somebody like you is because I have no dog in the fight of reputation or PR management or anything like that. Thankfully, my, and why we're good at it, is we only focus on answering the phone and giving the client the best experience over the phone.
If I can tell my customers that we have a great relationship with this great company, Reputation Ink, if you're looking for help PR-wise, I know we have an offer, I don't remember what it is off the top of my head, but if you sign up with Answering Legal, you get a free consultation with Michelle and her wonderful company Reputation Ink. When we start to do that and build those relationships and people see that we not only are integrated with the right companies but that we just care about giving them the best business advice or consultation possible, that becomes more attractive too. People want to talk to you if you're honest. Not, "Oh, I'll sell you that and I'll sell you that."
Plus, I mentioned this the other day, somebody said they wanted to develop something in-house, and I was like, people aren't going to want to buy that from us because you don't go into a car dealership and when you buy the car, you also want to buy gym equipment. It doesn't make sense. The car dealership does the cars, the gym equipment company does the gym equipment. I've just found it to be really useful and it's worked for us. I thought it was one of the smartest things I've ever heard.
[00:08:29] Michelle: Well, and I look at it too from a, well, a couple of angles. In that one, it just makes creating content easier. You're not actually having to create so much content. I think what you guys have done really well is where you do these comprehensive guides and you bring in lots of experts in different fields of marketing and you ask them to create content.
We, as the people you're asking, don't have to create that much. It's not a heavy lift, but when all put together, it turns into a great content piece. You solve that problem, but also too with social media, you're borrowing their audience. Those people are going to share and put it in front of their audience because you've just created a piece of content for them. It's really getting that bang for your buck with marketing.
[00:09:23] Nick: It's so true. It's people who are interested in maybe just using you and have never heard of an answering service, but say we start working together or putting out content together and people see the benefit of, oh, I could have Michelle manage my reputation and I could also have Nick answer my law firm's phone calls, it's a win-win.
You get exposed to different audiences, but it's also, I love the fact that— how do I phrase this? This is like the dark side of content marketing, too. If you think about marketing in the sense that, I just want to be where my target audience is, how do I get there? Even though they don't care about necessarily my message, well then, if I'm not the expert, I want to go be where the experts are and participate in that conversation. That's really like, if we're talking about the selfish ends of it, I think, that's a byproduct of trying to help customers.
[00:10:25] Michelle: Absolutely. Tell me about your thinking with this recent-- You put out this 2023 Lawyers Guide and instead of doing written content, you did a compilation of videos. Can you talk me through that strategy?
[00:10:39] Nick: Funny story. We have sent that out to subscribers, people who have opted into our blog, maybe people who have downloaded things in the past, and then all of our customers. I got an email from-- He wasn't a customer, he was using this service for a trial and he writes me an email. He says, "Nick, I need to talk to you right away."I called him up, I said, "Hey, how can I help?" He's like, "It's about this Lawyer's Guide. I really like everything. I want to put it in my briefcase. Can you send it to me as a PDF so I can print it out?" I said, "Absolutely. I can send it to you as a PDF, but it's 57 videos and longer than four hours of content that you have to watch. I can't put that in a PDF for you." That was the one response that I got there.I thought that was funny.
The idea of video to me is— I've been doing this almost a decade. I watched the content universe go from short blogs, keyword posts that nobody really liked to this, I'm going to call it storytelling, but really good storytelling. I've seen a lot of people put out some content that I've just been amazed by. It's got graphs, infographs, interviews, quotes, research. Research was big for a while. If you could conduct your own survey and then put it into your post, that was one of those things. Now I'm watching it evolve into people want to watch it instead of read it. That's been the boom of podcasts, too.
I used to laugh at people who had podcasts until I made a podcast, and I was like, "Oh, I understand." Because we don't want to consume the content the same way. We want to listen to it, feel a part of the conversation and not be spoken at. This medium feels really inviting. I've watched your podcast. I watch a lot of legal podcasts. I watch The Always Sunny in Philadelphia podcast. I've seen that show like five times. It's just a lot of fun. It's more inviting to me than reading and there's a lot of research that backs that up.
YouTube is, again, the biggest search engine right now besides Google, and Google owns it. I've also seen a lot of success in video marketing on Facebook. It's clear that there's a demand for video and we figured why not? It's more fun for us to create, in all honesty, it's a little bit easier for us to create because instead of sitting down and writing and editing and making sure it's all good, you just have a conversation with a person. It's more enjoyable.
[00:13:40] Michelle: 100%, yes.
[00:13:41] Nick: You pose the question at the top and then I have somebody like you answer it in your own words instead of dry written content. There's still a place for that too, I'm not saying to get away from that, but it was just something that we saw there was a lack of and wanted to test out. It's gotten a good response so far. It's been really good.
[00:14:04] Michelle: That's great. As I built my agency, I switched from having a physical office space in one city to being remote and being based all over the country and focusing more on a vertical market with law firms and professional services. Video was never one of those things I thought would be able to scale in that way. You need videographers to be on the ground and doing the shoots and that kind of thing.
I saw some really innovative agencies during the pandemic that would really help law firms create their own video by doing what we're doing now. Because lawyers on the whole aren't the most visual type of industry. Our other industry we really work with is architecture, engineering and construction and that's really visual. We can go out and get really cool video of crews moving earth and building big things. It's more exciting, but lawyers are talking heads, sitting at a desk. I think the creating videos, just using Zoom is what people are doing and it makes it scalable and it makes it something that a lawyer could create and then work with somebody like me, any other kind of marketing agency to package up and to help direct. It takes away the tech requirements and the having to be on-site type thing. When you went and said, "Hey, can you guys just all collect this?" Was there any pushback or are people really understanding that it's easy to capture this video and you don't have to have a big crew out there and all the lighting and that kind of thing.
[00:15:50] Nick: I had no pushback. I take your point because, when I initially started shooting video, I was really nervous. I was like, "It's not going to look good enough. It's not going to sound good enough." I'm a perfectionist. I don't want to put something out there and it becomes a joke. I don't want to be the butt end of a joke. I want to represent the company the best way that I possibly can. I did that by getting a $50 camera. My camera's $50. This ring light, that makes me look not so washed out, is $20, and this microphone was like $150. That's the three things that I use to record this podcast.
If there were pushback or people did ask me is it affordable to start participating in or shooting my own video? It's very affordable. Then the response that I got— Well, I used a lot of people that we have relationships with and thankfully there was, again no pushback, but people were so excited. They were like, "This is so cool. I can't wait to see this come out. What else can I do? Do you want my help promoting it? Can we talk longer?"Again, it's one of those things that I think has gotten content creators and marketers back into having fun with marketing again.
If you're a behind-the-scenes-type person, this is fun for you too. You can cut up the video, you can make clips, you can try different thumbnails, you can put stuff on TikTok. I'm on TikTok. I laugh at myself all the time. I hate the way I look and the sound of my voice, but it's just something that you get used to after all that.
[00:17:25] Michelle: Yes. You have to get over it. I'm the same way.
[00:17:28] Nick: Everybody's like, "Oh, man, I saw you on TikTok." I'm like, "Oh no." They're like, "No, it was really cool. I saw you interview this person." I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'm glad that you liked it because I can't watch it.”
[00:17:38] Michelle: Well, it's similar to the, like you were saying, the whole idea of, "Oh, I'm hosting a podcast," a few years ago, it sounded silly, but it's such an effective tool to one, build relationships. For me, it's been a real relationship builder. When I started my podcast, I would just target people I wanted to have a connection with, that I wanted to build that relationship with so that, I guess what you would say, is a form of partnership marketing or referral marketing. I looked at it just from a pure referrals and relationship standpoint with a side benefit of creating content.
People who figure out how to use it to reach their goals or using it really effectively. I mean, I had someone teach me that, I just didn't know it. I thought, "Oh, podcasts are so…. The market's flooded. I'm not going to say anything new." But when you look at it really from that network building, relationship building while also creating content, you really get huge benefits out of it.
[00:18:41] Nick: There's also a really cool guy. I'm going to forget his name and I feel bad because I like him a lot. He has a company, I believe it's called Legal Pods.
[00:18:53] Michelle: I've interviewed him.
[00:18:55] Nick: Oh, good.
[00:18:56] Michelle: Yes, or LawPods. Is it LawPods? Yes.
[00:18:58] Nick: Oh my God. Thank you. I can't remember anything. I'm becoming my mother. It's really bad. Sorry, mum.
[00:19:01] Michelle: I'm the same. I blame it on technology.
[00:19:05] Nick: Do you think?
[00:19:06] Michelle: Yes.
[00:19:06] Nick: I can't remember the— I just called it Legal Pods and the poor guy's name—
[00:19:10] Michelle: No, no. Yes. He's turned a whole business into helping lawyers do podcasts. It's incredibly smart. In fact, I'd love for us to do it more, but absolutely.
[00:19:22] Nick: I just love the idea that there's a specific— I think he used to be a lawyer, right?
[00:19:30] Michelle: Yes.
[00:19:31] Nick: He's just having fun making a little bit of money. He's just got a group and he just teaches you what to talk about, who to interview, what questions to ask, what makeup to wear, what camera to buy. People need that information because it's nerve-wracking to— I remember years ago when I was beating the table for lawyers to write blog content for their website. That was my big thing. I would say “Why lawyers need to blog. Why this would be beneficial for your legal marketing.” But, what do I need in order to start blogging? How do I blog? How do I post a blog post?You walk people through, here's how you post on WordPress. Here's how you set up a wiki site. You can post on Medium and Medium has all this good link juice to give you. He has taken that same idea and just applied it to the way that people want to consume content today, which is podcast. They're super popular.
[00:20:33] Michelle: I myself hired a podcast company to help me get started because we were slammed, we'd never done a podcast before and I want to make sure I did it right. There's a slight learning curve at the beginning, and once you get into it and you really understand the medium, you understand all the ins and outs. For the actual host it's— If you are looking at a lawyer wanting a lawyer to host a podcast, it's such an easier lift than asking them to write a blog post.
Especially if you have the support of a company behind you the setting up the interviews, doing a bit of research for you beforehand, the calendaring. That kind of thing. Then it's really just having a conversation for a half hour or 15, 20 minutes kind of thing. It's a way to network. I think it's slowly replacing the going out to the chamber lunch, that kind of thing that we used to do.
From a PR perspective, because that's our bread and butter, I'm seeing more and more news outlets adding podcasts to their offerings. It gives us another place to place clients. In another way, we'll pitch a story and the editor might run the story and then also have us on the podcast. Which is a win-win for us and helps expand our ability.
I've been in PR for 20 years, a little more than that.The media has changed so much and this is that newer— I think there's a resurgence now with multimedia, which is great.
Tell me a little bit about what this year looks like from y'all's marketing strategy. Are you going to try anything new? Are you doubling down on anything that you've been doing in the past? What are some of y'all's initiatives?
[00:22:40] Nick: One of my favorite things is…. I focused in the past on a lot of growth marketing and brand awareness. Now a lot of what we do is, because we want to get better, we're focusing on product development this year, so a lot of our strategy right now is a lot of user-generated content, but we empower the user to generate that content.
For example, I've teamed up with a videographer.He's local to me, but he travels. What I'll do is I'll call up a customer who I know I have a good relationship with, and I say, "Hey, you're in this area. You represent this type of law. Do you have two hours for a videographer to come down, do an interview with you and feature you on our YouTube channel?" Usually, people jump at that opportunity because again, it's fun to participate in something like that.
They get their name out there and because it's a high level— This guy knows what he is doing. I don't really pretend to know that much about cameras and shots and lights and all that, and set dressing. He goes out, he does an interview, we helps storyboard it, obviously, so that we can tell the right story. The finished product is incredible. Sometimes it's not that emotional, but it's really cool to hear, because what we do is we give lawyers their time back.
You don't have to spend time on the phone. This whole message of what can you do now that you're not, I don't know, constantly answering the phone and trying to get back to clients or worrying about is my business failing when I step out of the office and you hear the response of, "I feel so much more secure now in my business. I can step out of my office and I know that my business is still running." I have that quote ingrained into my brain.
[00:24:40] Michelle: That's great. Good quote.
[00:24:41] Nick: Right. Then I have a woman who's like, "I became a lawyer to provide for my family, and I want to go out to lunch. I want to go play golf. Answering Legal allows me to do that." They tell this story without me. I ask them a question, but I don't prompt them to tell me these individual things and it's so much more relatable to the actual audience.
So, we've partnered up with this guy.He's traveling, I think he's going to Philly next month. He's just been shooting a lot of videos for us, but we're doubling down on the podcast. We write a lot of content, but my focus is always to try and help the user. Really all the written stuff we do is stuff like the 2023 Lawyers Guide. What tools should you use for your law firm if you are practicing this or what tools best integrate with your legal CRM?We just want to help people. At this point, that's really all I care about, is making sure that lawyers have the right information from a trusted and verified source. It's cool that we get to be that source.
[00:25:51] Michelle: Well that's great B2B marketing. Being helpful is the number one key. I hammer that home constantly with my clients. No matter what, be helping. You guys have really nailed that one. In terms of social, obviously, LinkedIn. Do you spend much time— I think actually you just launched a group on Facebook, is that right? A Facebook Community?
[00:26:19] Nick: Yes, Joe launched another Facebook group. Joe is my counterpart. I am the loud, boisterous voice, and Joe is the mastermind who figures out how to make me not run through the walls constantly, is how I'll put it. We have a couple of Facebook groups. A couple of years ago he had this great idea. He wanted to start a legal marketing group where we could just participate in and foster a conversation between lawyers.Who's doing this? Is it working for you? How should I do this? We have legal marketing experts in there, too, because again, we're not competing with them. It's in our best interest to participate in this conversation and get the best answers possible. I think he has a new group. What is the group about…?
[00:27:10] Michelle: I've been invited to at least one.
[00:27:15] Nick: I know what the group is for. It's a legal coaching group. I forgot about it for a second. What it is, is we have three main hosts, because obviously I only know what I'm talking about from my own myopic, egocentric view of things. I'm pretty sure they're going to rotate, but we have a legal business coach, somebody who used to run a law firm and is now just a coach.
We have legal marketing experts, we have tech experts, people who used to be the CEOs of big, Clio-type CRMs. What we're going to do is we're going to go live, I think, quarterly. The group is there so that people can get notifications and it can be broadcast there. You can get into the live chat and ask questions to these hosts. Again, we're just trying to build a conversation and help people manage their law firm, run their practice better, get the best legal marketing advice.
Also, business advice is so hard to come by. People don't want to talk about, I don't know how to motivate my employees to like working for me better. Now, part of that is, are you paying them enough? Sure. Once that's out of the equation, how do I foster a good environment or a safe environment in which my employees can thrive? How do I handle conflict in the workplace?
These are the places that we can ask those questions because people feel like I should be able to figure this out. I'm the owner, I'm the operator, I'm the CEO, it's up to me to figure it out. It's not true. We can all share ideas and share the knowledge. That's what that group is for. I don't take credit for that. That was Joe's idea. He sold me on it, and he is doing his thing.
[00:29:05] Michelle: Great. Well, it's another one of those as marketers, we give terms to things. I call that community building. Creating a community around an affinity, these are people interested in law firm growth from any angle. When you create that community, I've seen several companies do that very well where they create a community. By being the creator of the community that gets inferred upon them certain attributes, so you know that these people care about this industry.
They care about their best practices, they're connected. You just get that visibility and that benefit from being part of that community. I see some people who do that extremely well. It's almost like a subset of that partnership marketing. It's the complete opposite of the old marketing which was tell everybody how great you are, tell everybody all these things about you and just shout it. It's the complete opposite of that, which is fun.
That's the reason I like B2B marketing and PR, it is just about education and being helpful in the end and doing it in interesting ways. We're lucky, we work with a lot of B2B lawyers where we get to learn about all kinds of cool topics we would never learn about because we're helping them be educational to their clients. We're facilitating that, and helping them help. Yes, that's great.
[00:30:41] Nick: That's like the best feeling when you get the fundamental understanding of a business because you can come from, like you're a businesswoman, and then they tell you, "Oh, this is what I do. This is how I speak to my client." And, "Boom, I got an idea for you. This is how you should talk about this." They're like, "Oh, my God, I never thought. Oh, it's the best feeling."
[00:30:59] Michelle: Yes, that's great. I'd like to wrap us up with, do you see any trends impacting the legal marketing or business world this year? Have you guys done anything around like ChatGPT or talked about that at all?
[00:31:18] Nick: I'm a wait-and-see type of person. I like to think that I'm on the forefront, but I'm really not because I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket. ChatGPT is cool, but there's a lot of strange implications, and there's a lot of people trying to make it better. If I start working on ChatGPT, but then the Google counterpart comes out and the Google one is better and it goes—
[00:31:46] Michelle: Yes, remember Google Plus.
[00:31:48] Nick: Exactly. [laughs]
[00:31:51] Nick: I had business Google Plus accounts.
[00:31:53] Michelle: Yes, same.
[00:31:54] Nick: I'll be the first to tell you, I tried all that stuff. Are there any trends? I think the biggest trend that I'm seeing right now is that we've come out of this whole pandemic thing, and lawyers are fed up, they want to go back to work, they want to grow and they want to hit the ground running, and they're like, "What can I buy from you to make my life easier?" I think there's never been a better time to invest in legal tech, in automation, in growing your business and law firms are just hungry right now.
From my point of view, I think that cases got pushed down the pipeline, and people are still coming out of that and need legal help. It was on hold for a little bit, but now it's almost as if the floodgates have opened. We have an outbound call team, too, and there's nobody that we speak to that says, "I just don't have enough clients to justify using an answering service." It's "Okay, how much does it cost? I'm looking for this. Do you have a recommendation for that? Can I integrate my CRM with you guys? Can I so on and so forth?" I just think that if you can be involved, again, in those conversations about automation and how you fit into that mold of what lawyers are really looking for, I think you're doomed to succeed.
[00:33:33] Michelle: That's great. Doomed to succeed, I love it. Well, thank you. We've been talking to Nick Werker of Answering Legal. If people wanted to reach out to you, where's the best place to go, LinkedIn, your website?
[00:33:44] Nick: You can connect with me on LinkedIn. You can email me, I'm really easy, nick@answeringlegal.com. You can go to the website and schedule an appointment, or I don't know. Call me at 631-686-9700. I'm super easy. Just email me, LinkedIn, I don't care, I'll answer whatever you got.
[00:34:06] Michelle: That's great. Well, thanks so much for joining me.
[00:34:09] Nick: Thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
[00:34:13]: Thanks for listening to SpilltheInk, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click “Subscribe” to get future episodes.
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