With a tight labor market casting a dark shadow over our heads, architecture, engineering and construction firm marketers are increasingly stepping in to support talent recruiting, engagement and retention. Bryce Batts, the Co-Founder of AEC staffing firm Career Collective, sits down with us to talk about how marketing and HR departments are teaming up to attract top talent.
Bryce gives us a glimpse into the state of the AEC hiring market and the top challenges hiring firms are navigating. She also covers how a strong employer brand impacts recruitment, why social media channels like LinkedIn should be a priority, the importance of internship programs, and more.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
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About Career Collective and Bryce Batts’ journey to launching a staffing firm dedicated to the AEC industry.
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Key factors driving the AEC talent shortage.
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How marketing and HR are collaborating to improve recruiting, engagement and retention strategies.
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The role of marketing in shaping a strong employer brand and how it can influence hiring.
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How candidates use social media and why it’s crucial for firms to convey authenticity online.
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Bryce’s advice on handling negative reviews on platforms like Glassdoor.
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How marketing assets, project spotlights and a modern website impact seller-doer recruitment.
About our featured guest
Bryce has been a recruiter in the AEC industry for over 15 years and is a certified Career Coach. She met her husband in college, and they have two daughters and a Bernedoodle. Bryce earned her bachelor’s degree at North Carolina State University and received her master of business administration from Nova Southeastern. She was a college dancer and cheerleader and loves to cheer professionals on as they gain clarity and confidence when it comes to their career goals.
Bryce is the co-CEO of Career Collective, an AEC recruiting and coaching firm. Career Collective was founded with a singular vision: Providing both candidates and employers with premier access to the best in AEC industry opportunities. Guided by Bryce Batts and Edwin Powali, Career Collective stands at the forefront of AEC recruitment. Bryce's passion for career coaching and Edwin's prowess in talent acquisition create a powerhouse duo dedicated to enriching both the careers of individuals and the teams of employers they serve.
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Bryce Batts: These younger employees are more about work-life balance and boundaries, and they are making that known to employers, so employers have to listen and make some changes.
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[00:00:15] Announcer: Welcome to “Spill the Ink,” a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering, and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
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[00:00:30] Michelle Calcote King: Hi, everyone. I am Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host, and I'm the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We are a public relations and thought leadership marketing agency for B2B professional services firms, including architecture, engineering and construction firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
The competition for workers, especially skilled workers, is cutthroat in the AEC industry. In fact, a 2023 workforce survey by the Associated General Contractors of America reported that there are reported job openings in 85% of companies and 88% of those said they are actually struggling to fill those positions. As you can imagine, hiring and recruitment are really hot topics at a lot of AEC firms. Because of that, we're really excited to have Bryce Batts on the show today. Bryce is one of the founders of Career Collective. It's a staffing firm that specializes in AEC. She's been helping companies find the best talent for over 15 years. Welcome to the show, Bryce.
[00:01:40] Bryce: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.
[00:01:44] Michelle: Yes, well, tell me a little bit about yourself and Career Collective. How did you end up in this field helping the AEC industry recruit talent?
[00:01:57] Bryce: Yes, so we were chatting a little bit before you hit record. I used to live in Florida, and my husband was in the AEC industry at the time. He was my boyfriend that I moved down to Florida with, so our parents were thrilled. I was getting my MBA and did not know what I wanted to do next, but I met a girl in my MBA program, and she said, "I'm working for this recruiting company. You'd be great at it. Your boyfriend already does this. He's in this industry, so you should come work with me."
I was like, "All right, I'll give it a try." Like most people, I fell into recruiting and then fell into the AEC space and basically never left. I worked for this small firm for a long time, and my now business partner was also working there. He and I were always vying for the number one or number two spot at the company. Both competitive, both loved recruiting, and decided, like many people after COVID, to give it a go on our own.
I was at a place where I was like, "Well, there's not a lot of upward mobility where we're at." I had another offer on the table, so it was like prime time. I had to make a decision. Funny enough, my husband left his job of forever and moved to a different company at the same time I left and started Career Collective with my business partner. Now we're in year three.
[00:03:26] Michelle: Congrats.
[00:03:27] Bryce: Thank you. Yes, we're really blessed that some of our clients found us once we opened and followed us here. Then we've reconnected with old ones, found new ones. It's been fun. We've got 21 people here now and two offices.
[00:03:42] Michelle: Wow.
[00:03:43] Bryce: It's really exciting.
[00:03:45] Michelle: Yes, that's amazing. Congratulations.
[00:03:47] Bryce: Thank you.
[00:03:49] Michelle: Tell me, well, I gave a little bit of an overview, and anybody who's in the AEC industry knows this is a big issue. Tell me a little bit. Give us your take on the current state of talent in the AEC industry.
[00:04:09] Bryce: Yes, it's like — I think of it as a roller coaster, much like sales. I think back to 2008 when the economy crashed, and we were in a recession, and you saw tons of architects leaving the market. Then during COVID, things were so crazy. People couldn't visit job sites. Some of our clients were maintaining; others slowed down. After COVID, it was pretty wild. Everybody was hiring. Everybody was back in business.
Jobs weren't on hold anymore. Now I feel like this year we're starting to see it level out a little. The fight for talent is still the same, honestly. Good talent is so hard to find. I think it's because people left the industry in '08. We don't have enough people entering the industry. So many issues. Then if they do, they're going on to other things, which I'm sure we'll tackle these topics. Yes, it's still really tough, and it's super competitive. It's a tight market.
[00:05:11] Michelle: Well, you started to allude to it. Let's jump into, why is the AEC industry so beleaguered by a shortage of talent? What about this industry is making it so tough?
[00:05:26] Bryce: Yes, I think one of the good things of COVID was we saw a lot of AEC firms go remote or hybrid, and some of them have stuck with that hybrid schedule. A lot of them want everyone back in. I know it's a very collaborative industry. It's a collaborative role. So you need people in the office. But people are leaving firms and leaving the industry for positions where they can be fully remote or where they can have a better hybrid schedule or more pay in other industries.
Then, like I mentioned, in '08, we had so many architects leave the industry. I just think we don't have enough people going to school for engineering and architecture, it seems like, engineering especially. That's a whole problem of its own.
[00:06:18] Michelle: Right. Yes, it starts at the school level with people going into the field and then people retiring out of the career, yes, that confluence of factors, all coming together. Absolutely. We're a marketing agency, and this podcast is very much so about marketing. I'd like to talk to you about the collaboration. I don't know if you're seeing it in your role, but that collaboration between marketing and HR teams in supporting that talent recruitment, but also, not even just recruitment, but engagement and retention. Tell me, are you seeing that, and how are you seeing that role of marketing evolving in impacting recruitment?
[00:07:13] Bryce: Yes, good questions. Our bread-and-butter clients are those small to midsize firms, not like a mom-and-pop but small to midsize, and those midsize firms do have HR and marketing in-house, and getting them to work in tandem, I think they're starting to understand. Some of these firms we work with, they don't even have a job description put together. If they're working with a recruiter, we can help sell the role because we get to know our clients.
We know the benefits, the culture, and all of that. But say you're a candidate who's just applying to the website or applying to an Indeed ad. It's like, "Okay, well, what do about the company?" If the job description isn't well-written, they might not apply at all. You might not get many applicants. I hear from a lot of clients like, "Well, we got some applicants, but they were totally out of the field or just didn't make sense for what we do."
I think it starts with marketing and HR working hand in hand. Now with video and social media, employers can really establish a brand, and they can get that out to the masses through their LinkedIn, through their website, and all the social media. There has to be a throughline through the job descriptions, through what's being posted on LinkedIn. I don't think it has to be a super daunting task, even for these smaller firms. It's just like, "What are your values? What's your brand? What do you want to — what's your messaging that you're going to tell candidates, other clients that you want to work with?" and so on and so forth, and making sure it's consistent.
[00:08:59] Michelle: Yes, that's a good point. Just even the job description, getting that well written and making sure it's clear who this company is and what it's about so that it matches up with who applies for the role. Yes. What about social media? You mentioned LinkedIn. Are you seeing social media play a role?
[00:09:21] Bryce: Yes, I think a lot of people are on LinkedIn now. They're seeing it more as a place not just to look for jobs but to engage with other professionals, to post, to see and be seen, kind of. I think it's important to have a presence there but then across other social media as well. I will say, we do fun events. We're big on culture. We'll post that on our LinkedIn.
I can't tell you how many times we've hired someone and they're like, "I was looking on your LinkedIn, and people were smiling. It didn't look forced. They look like they're happy." It's hilarious that people are diving that deeply into your social media and your LinkedIn to see what those things are that you're posting. I'm like, "Oh, well, I think they are happy."
[00:10:10] Michelle: I love that. Yes. No, I think that it makes a big difference. People want to work somewhere where everyone else is happy and gets along with each other. Yes, that all makes — and that comes through with social media. You can't hide that kind of stuff. You can't hide a toxic workplace anymore. There's things like Glassdoor and —
[00:10:32] Bryce: Oh, gosh, yes.
[00:10:33] Michelle: — some of those other things that — do you find that? Do you ever run up against a company that might have some negative Glassdoor reviews that becomes problematic?
[00:10:44] Bryce: We do. Yes, we sure do. Because they'll post on Glassdoor or Google reviews but primarily Glassdoor and then they'll see. I try to tell candidates we're working with, if I know this is a good solid client — and that's who we work with, like great companies — "Look, these are probably people who left" or be very transparent about it like, "Yes, the company did go through a really tough time" because I've had some clients like that.
They have, "These people are gone. They've hired new leaders. This is where they're going now. This is what you can expect.” But yes, you're correct. Those are valid reviews. That is what went down, but this is the new direction they're taking. I think it’s just being honest about it.
[00:11:29] Michelle: Yes, that's great. Yes, every company has those periods where they might have been going through a tough period. Yes, Glassdoor can expose that. What about retention? Do you see that marketing impacts retention, keeping employees?
[00:11:46] Bryce: Yes, I think so. I'm not a marketer, but I think it does help just with what is, again, those values, the messaging, the branding, the feel of the company because obtaining the talent and then retaining them is the hardest thing. You see so much counter-offers and things like that happening where candidates are looking and basically want an offer to take back to their company. Maybe things aren't all bad there.
There are some things that could be improved upon, but basically, they want more money, and they want to see a couple of things change and feel like they can talk to their employer. I think that's where marketing could step in like, "We have an open-door policy. We're approachable," instead of them feeling like they need to go get an offer and bring it back and leverage in that way.
[00:12:43] Michelle: Now, so are you working with companies’ — what sort of levels are you recruiting with because I wanted to talk to you maybe about internship programs, but are you working more with the senior level executives? Do you find that internship programs matter to the employees that you're placing at all?
[00:13:07] Bryce: The clients I work with, the employers, they love interns, especially for these really tough-to-fill positions. We talked about engineering. I've had clients looking for electrical engineers. They're like, "18 months, two years. We cannot find anyone. We get really close, but we can't make the hire, for whatever reason." They've had interns who are able to help them with some of this workload during the summer.
They love interns. Since they're paying us a fee and it is based on the person's base salary, we're typically placing people with three-plus years of experience. I would say five to eight is the sweet spot, maybe some 20-year guys, but at least three years and up.
[00:13:54] Michelle: Yes. Okay. Got it. Yes, because I find that a lot of AEC companies place a lot of value or a lot of emphasis on those internship programs, but if they don't keep those people, then they've got to start looking at that level where you come into play. Yes, then that becomes the really competitive area. What are some of the misconceptions that you see among the talent war in AEC? Are there any kind of misconceptions that you're having to debunk with — either on the talent side or the employer side?
[00:14:41] Bryce: Yes. I think the younger generations, well, employers think, they're just going to stay a year, or they've got terrible job stability because they've had three jobs in three years. I think we have to change our mindset a little bit. We're no longer seeing people stay at a job for 20 years. I think if you see someone at a job for three or more years, it's like, "Oh, this is pretty good job stability."
If they're there for five or 10, that's excellent. I think it's just thinking of it in terms of where we are at today and then being able to offer them a hybrid schedule. I don't think that means they want to sit at home in their underwear and watch TV. These younger employees are more about work-life balance and boundaries, and they are making that known to employers. Employers have to listen and make some changes.
[00:15:34] Michelle: Well, that's a great point you brought up. I'd love to talk to you about the generational differences. Do you do some counseling to clients about the generational differences when hiring, and are there some really clear differences that you see when placing talent?
[00:15:52] Bryce: Yes, we do. We coach them in that arena and then others as well because, yes, everybody wants the eight-year PE. But as you were mentioning, these interns can be really valuable. It's like, "Can you take an intern and get them to come back the next summer or offer them a job once they graduate and grow that employee?"
I know they're nervous, the employer is, because they're putting time into this person. But there's really no other way if you can't find the talent, at least if you can get these one-, two-year guys and groom them and train them. Then they'll have some loyalty to you, hopefully, get their EI and then their PE, and stay with you long term.
[00:16:37] Michelle: Yes, absolutely. What about DEI or women's initiatives? Do you find that any of that makes a difference to potential hires when they're assessing companies?
[00:16:52] Bryce: Yes, it does. Yes. I've talked to candidates, and now I'm moreso talking to clients. Talk to candidates, and they'll tell you what's important. Then it's our job as a recruiter if we're not already working with those companies to find them a client who does embody that and then talking directly to the client like, "Look, this is what's important to this candidate. Do you guys offer this?"
If I don't already know about it, then I want to ask them what they offer to make sure it is going to be a good fit. That is important to a lot of candidates. Again, the younger candidates, they want to be able to volunteer. They want to know that their job has meaning. They want to know that they're able to move up within the company, and there is potential for growth, and that there's meaning behind and purpose behind what they do.
[00:17:41] Michelle: Do differences between the architecture, the engineering, and the construction? Are there any key differences in terms of the recruiting challenges in those different disciplines?
[00:17:54] Bryce: Yes, we laugh around here because placing architects can be more difficult because I think —
[00:17:59] Michelle: Oh, interesting.
[00:18:00] Bryce: — architecture firms are so specific on the types of projects they've worked on, what the exact design experience they've had. Whereas engineering, and again, I'm not an engineer, but this is what I'm hearing from clients, if you've worked on a commercial space, that may translate into larger commercial buildings or multifamily.
[00:18:22] Michelle: Got it.
[00:18:22] Bryce: Maybe not labs and healthcare, but some of these things translate. I feel like the architecture can be a little bit trickier.
[00:18:32] Michelle: Interesting. Architecture firms, they want to see, "You've designed a school. You've designed a hospital. You've done those sectors." Do they tend to look for region-specific? Are they geographic at all in their preferences? Is it really just industry-specific?
[00:18:53] Bryce: They don't seem to care about regions as much unless you're looking at a more senior-level candidate who's coming with contacts, who's done business development. Otherwise, "Okay, they've done schools. They can do schools here."
[00:19:07] Michelle: Yes. Tell me about the seller-doer recruitment. Tell me about the challenges and what it’s like. What are you looking for there when recruiting those types of folks?
[00:19:20] Bryce: Yes, I think it begins with the company that we're working with. We don't work on as many of those roles. Some are looking for somebody strictly that can do business development. Some, and it seems like more, are looking for more of that seller-doer type role. They do want someone that's got local contacts, that can bring those contacts with them, and nurture those in whatever industry they're working within.
I think that is more regional. Then I think it gets tricky with the salary for those types of folks because most companies want to pay a base. Then, are they getting bonuses? Are they getting commissions? When are they being bonused, when the project's brought in, when it started? Some of those things can be tricky.
[00:20:08] Michelle: Right. Do you find that seller-doers are more interested in the marketing and how a company presents itself and markets itself?
[00:20:20] Bryce: Yes.
[00:20:20] Michelle: Because I would assume that a seller-doer is going to be really focused on that. Is going to want a firm that is really well-positioned in the marketplace, has a strong marketing engine behind it.
[00:20:35] Bryce: Yes. You hit it head-on. They want to be able — they're bringing in this work. They've got to have this brand behind them that they can sell and then projects they can point to on their website. They want to make sure the website's up-to-date and all of those things. I see that with a lot of architecture clients, too. Obviously, you're in architecture. You're in design.
You've got to have a beautiful website that displays your work and got to make sure it's not old and doesn't look great. I'm thinking back to clients I've had who even 10 years ago didn't even have a website. They're like, "Well, here's a PDF you can give the candidate." I'm like, "I love you. You've got to get a website."
[00:21:18] Michelle: Isn't that wild? That is so wild.
[00:21:20] Bryce: I'm like, that wasn't that long ago.
[00:21:22] Michelle: Yes. I could see the difference. In my field, architects, yes, the design aesthetic is much more important because they are visually oriented. That's their field. Whereas, on the engineering side, we do a lot more. We're writing a lot of technical thought leadership content. We're doing a lot more in-depth content where we're explaining technical concepts.
The needs and desires of what we're communicating changes according to the discipline. On construction, we're talking more — we're really talking about, "Was it delivered on time? Were these projects done safely, on time, within budget?" We're also talking about sector experience. Do you find, are there any nuances in the construction area that you see when recruiting that are particular?
[00:22:27] Bryce: I can't speak to construction as much. We don't work with a ton of construction clients, but what you said with safety, being on time, under budget, all of those things, yes. Then I actually was talking with a woman here in Raleigh. She's got an AEC marketing company, and she was talking about all the things she does on the proposal side.
Now, she's very niche in what she does, but I thought it was pretty cool to hear how competitive it is at that stage of the game and all the unique things she was doing just on the proposal side and then with video as well, like going out in the field and interviewing these people, and including some of that. I'm like, gosh, you’ve got to get really creative these days.
[00:23:14] Michelle: Yes. We don't get involved in proposals. It's a whole other niche that we've never done, but we do a lot of video, and construction is just a very visual industry. It's a very tangible, visual industry, so showing it, but it's a tricky industry to show visually. You've got a lot of safety issues, a lot of logistics to navigate to get in there. A lot of companies are really doing innovative things where they're just getting their — the people who are already on site — handing them iPhones, and getting the footage that way, and doing some really cool stuff. Yes. I see a lot of companies doing great, showcasing their employees more and more through video, which I love to see as well.
[00:24:10] Bryce: Yes, it's a peek behind the scenes, which I think we all love seeing, like, show us the real stuff.
[00:24:16] Michelle: Absolutely, yes, absolutely. Do you find that — is that process changing technologically as well in terms of the recruitment? Are companies asking potential employees to submit video and that kind of thing in the AEC industry as well, or because you're navigating the process for them, that's not happening?
[00:24:44] Bryce: Yes, I haven't seen that as much when they're working with us. I do think that will be something in the future to save them time. Just have them do a video interview. Submit that. I have one client who actually, they're a mechanical contractor, and they do a lot of that. I think of Spark interviews, yes. I think that piece is changing. For us personally, 10, 12, 15 years ago, I was picking up the phone. I was making a ton of calls every day.
I see that changing, where now we have automated campaigns. We text a lot of candidates and clients. Obviously, we're still emailing them but a lot of LinkedIn messaging. Then a lot of people want to jump on video. Maybe they'll get on a Teams call or something like that, which I always think — I love phone because I think you can have a better conversation than you can through text, and you can get a lot more information, but even better, let's get you on a video call so you can see each other face-to-face.
[00:25:47] Michelle: Yes, absolutely, I completely agree, yes. How are you finding candidates? What's your method for that?
[00:25:55] Bryce: We have a pretty extensive database that we've built over the last few years. We get candidates through referrals, a lot of networking. We spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, messaging people that way, and I know everybody gets a ton of messages in their LinkedIn inbox, trying to recruit them. I think you have to enjoy the thrill of the hunt, finding the candidate.
Back when I was just recruiting all the time, I remember I found an intern architect on Facebook, and I was like, yes, I found this person on Facebook. They live everywhere, but I think it's just thinking outside the box but, obviously, LinkedIn a lot.
[00:26:38] Michelle: Yes, I completely agree. You got to go enjoy the thrill of it. I'm that way with business development, so you got to enjoy it. If there's one final lesson you could leave our listeners with on this topic, I'd love to let you do so.
[00:26:56] Bryce: Yes, I'll speak from the recruiting point of view. Companies who are working with a recruiter, really, invest some time on the front end. Tell them all about your benefits. Tell them about your company culture, your values, all the things that you offer that would make a candidate want to work there. Make your company enticing. Then the recruiter will do their job, and they will find you the talent.
We partner and we vet these candidates on personality and things like that, but the company has to vet them technically. I can't give them a Revit test. I can look at their portfolio, but I can't decide if this is up to snuff. That's on the company. I can vet them in every other way. I can tell you all the offers they have, everywhere they've interviewed, what they're really looking for, what's their bottom line with salary.
I think it's just really partnering with the recruiter, and then let that recruiter not only work with the principal but maybe HR, maybe marketing. Get everybody involved so you can get the right person in the door, and then retain that person with good onboarding.
[00:28:12] Michelle: Yes. Oh, I love that. Bring all those people together because, yes, if HR can define that, marketing can package it up, can communicate it well, can put it on the website when appropriate, all of that. You have to define it, to begin with. You have to put some thought behind it. Yes, that's fantastic. Well, thank you very much. It's been a really, really insightful discussion. We have been talking to Bryce Batts of Career Collective. Thank you so much for joining us.
[00:28:46] Bryce: Thank you. This was really fun. I really appreciate it.
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[00:28:52] Announcer: Thanks for listening to “Spill the Ink,” a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time, and be sure to click “Subscribe” to get future episodes.
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