Reports of attorneys grappling with issues like anxiety, depression and substance abuse remain alarmingly high as the legal industry continues fighting for ground in the battle against mental health and well-being issues.
This Mental Health Awareness Month and Well-Being in Law Week, we’ve invited well-being consultant Tara Antonipillai to discuss the state of the legal industry and actionable strategies law firms can implement to expand wellness programs and enact positive change at their firms.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
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Who Tara Antonipillai is
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About Cultivate and The Institute for Well-Being in Law
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The common mental health challenges attorneys and legal professionals experience
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Practical strategies for sparking positive change at your law firm
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How to spot signs that your attorneys may be struggling, and what you can do to help
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Tips for leaders on fostering a supportive work environment
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Why following through is the most crucial step in promoting mental health at work
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What loneliness in the workplace looks like and how it affects attorneys
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Whether mental health and well-being programs can influence a firm’s ability to grow business and revenue
About our featured guest
The founder of Cultivate, Tara Antonipillai's experience in professional well-being comes from a career in Big Law, a master's degree in applied psychology and ongoing research in the field. Tara is a consultant, speaker and coach who combines her unique set of skills to introduce topics that include the science of well-being, job satisfaction, communication, stress management, compassionate leadership, mindfulness, resilience, mindset, and engagement and belonging to law firms and other organizations.
Tara received her J.D. and undergraduate degree from Georgetown University and was a tax lawyer at Arnold & Porter’s DC office. She also holds a master’s degree in applied positive psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. Tara is a certified leadership and performance coach through Brown University. She is also a certified yoga instructor and meditation teacher, as well as a certified Mental Health First Aid instructor.
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Tara Antonipillai: Just telling people lawyers have problems with substance misuse or, you know, it's healthier to drink less or it's healthier to sleep more, right? It's not enough. So we need to combine that education, really, with the skills and the underlying infrastructure that supports behavior change.
[00:00:24] Announcer: Welcome to " Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
[00:00:41] Michelle Calcote King: Hi, everyone. I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm your host, and I'm also the principal and president of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for B2B professional services firms, including law firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
We're talking today about mental health because May is Mental Health Awareness Month. It's top of mind for many law firm owners, attorneys and legal professionals.
So we invited Tara Antonipillai to talk with us about mental health awareness in law firms. She's an attorney and consultant who specializes in helping law firms develop and expand their workplace well-being programs.
She performs her consulting work through her business, Cultivate. She's also the Director of Programming and a member of the Board of Directors at the Institute for Well-Being in Law. So, welcome to the show, Tara.
[00:01:36] Tara Antonipillai: Thank you so much for having me, Michelle. It's really, really great to be here.
[00:01:40] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I'm excited to talk about this issue.
I looked at your website. I love these topics. I read a lot about them. I'm a big self-help junkie. So I like to read about this stuff.
So I guess let's start with, tell me about your work. I'd love to hear about the transition from that sort of Big Law career into psychology and what you're doing now.
[00:02:03] Tara Antonipillai: Yeah, thank you so much. So I have sort of an interesting career path, I think like a lot of people who are in this space do. I was a tax lawyer at a large law firm in Washington, D. C., and I have had a lifelong interest really in kind of what I would describe as physical well-being.
So over time, and as I was sort of raising my kids and spending some time at home, I really transitioned. I went back to school; I got a master's in applied positive psychology. I'm also a certified coach, I'm a yoga teacher and a mindfulness instructor. So it really kind of all came together a little bit organically over time. And the kind of approach back into law firms, I guess I would say happened naturally. My firm invited me back and then I really realized that I enjoyed, kind of working in that organizational space.
[00:03:00] Michelle Calcote King: Well, it's a, really great fit because as a profession, this is a profession that struggles greatly with this issue. So you have really combined two areas that are often not combined — wellness, yoga, psychology, positivity, mental and physical health. And I mean, tax law, [laughs] you know?
So one, you've got that credibility that often, unfortunately, you have to have when speaking with lawyers. So you've got that. J. D. behind your name. So I'm guessing that helps quite a bit when you're, kind of, introducing topics to a lot of lawyers who might be quite skeptical of this kind of topic.
Do you find that that helps you, you know, entering the door with them and having that kind of conversation?
[00:03:50] Tara Antonipillai: I think it does. And for the most part, I think it's not just perception. There's a reality to that understanding the challenges that people are facing, the ability to empathize, I do think helps you to connect, but also helps us understand, you know, what is realistic. What's practical? What can we actually implement? What strategies might people be able to use?
[00:04:17] Michelle Calcote King: Well, let's start with why is this such an issue in this industry?
[00:04:21] Tara Antonipillai: Yeah, it's a really good question. We know from research and, at this point, many studies that have been done that lawyers have a disproportionately high rate of depression, anxiety, substance misuse and suicidality. So once you sort of establish that, it's not really a question of "Why?" necessarily. I mean, we know, you know, it's a stressful profession. It can be a lonely profession. Loneliness is another thing that shows up on those surveys and on those studies.
But I think maybe the more important question is, what can we do about it? How can we intervene? And so that's, I think what we're really thinking about a lot these days.
[00:05:10] Michelle Calcote King: Let's talk about it. So, you know, I was reading through your website and you offer sort of this variety of different workshops geared at different challenges. You know, I saw loneliness. I think some of the others were, you know emotional resiliency maybe. Tell me about how you've structured that and some of the ways that you are helping firms.
[00:05:33] Tara Antonipillai: Yeah. So from both the consulting perspective and a workshop and training perspective, it is really important I think — and I think the research backs this as well — to think about, you know, what are the strategies that actually make a difference?
So, one of the things that is a struggle is that sometimes organizations are even doing things for individuals that they're putting effort towards these programs, but maybe not the programs that are the most likely to lead to actual behavior change.
So what we find is that, you know, basically education is not enough, right? Just telling people lawyers have problems with substance misuse, or, you know, it's healthier to drink less or it's healthier to sleep more, right? It's not enough. So we need to combine that education, really, with the skills and the underlying infrastructure that supports behavior change.
So, that's kind of what all parts of my programs and consulting are looking to do. And, as you mentioned, I also do work for the Institute for Well-Being in Law and I'm very involved in their programming. And all of the Institute for Well-Being in Law's programming this year, especially for Well-Being Week in Law, which is coming up the first week in May, all focus around behavior change, right? What are the things that we can do to take action towards, you know, making positive change?
[00:07:08] Michelle Calcote King: What does that look like? So you come in, you do a workshop, and then how does that then continue in a firm?
[00:07:16] Tara Antonipillai: I mean, the first step is going to be a workshop, but really what we're thinking about doing is having people participate in a workshop where they get to experiment with doing things that support well-being. Not just education or not just talking about it, but actually thinking about, "How am I going to practice this? What are the things that support behavior change?" And then linking the things that firms can do to support. So what are those follow-up programs? What are the opportunities for coaching? What are the internal kind of structural supports that allow people to take those strategies and implement them in their lives?
So it really has more than one purpose and that's where the consulting piece and the training piece really overlap and matter because we know from sort of behavioral economics and behavioral change science, we know what allows people to make those kinds of positive changes. And if you're just giving information, it's not necessarily going to lead to that change.
[00:08:24] Michelle Calcote King: What are some of those things that lead to that ongoing change?
[00:08:27] Tara Antonipillai: There are a couple of things.
One, I always give these examples, but things like allowing people to have — this is one of our themes for Well-Being Week in Law this year — are, sort of, fresh starts, right? What are those opportunities for change?
The other thing is putting in supports within the organization, right? That are, like, let's say, reminders, right? What kind of reminders can we give people to cue them to take that behavior? And those types of reminders can come in different ways, right? We might have ongoing coaching sessions. That might be one thing. We might also think about, you know, what kind of pop-ups, reminders, calendaring? You know, those types of things allow that are sort of systemic. What types of programs allow us to do that? And then we're also talking about an infrastructure for leaders around communication and empathy, right? And all of these different elements that allow us to be in a workplace that's psychologically safe, that allows us to make change.
[00:09:33] Michelle Calcote King: When do law firm leaders tend to realize that they need to bring you in? And are you seeing greater awareness from them that between the healthier their attorneys are mentally and, you know, as a whole person and the bottom line? And at what point are you seeing that they--? 'Cause as a marketer, I know kind of those tipping points when I get a call, right?
[00:09:59] Tara Antonipillai: I think there's two pieces to that. Sometimes it is reactionary. Sometimes there's something that happens in the world or in the firm that people feel the need to respond to. Sometimes that can be an economic driver, like they're having retention problems, right?
But the second part of that is I think there is an underlying actual degree of care that people do care about the people they're working with, the people that are working for them. They don't always know how to translate that care into action or change or support. And so that's the part that I think we really can help with is sort of like, what does that supportive behavior look and sound like?
[00:10:48] Michelle Calcote King: Mm-hmm. I was going to ask, are you also training the leaders?
[00:10:52] Tara Antonipillai: Yeah.
[00:10:52] Michelle Calcote King: How are you equipping leaders to better create a culture that supports well-being and what does that look like? What are some of those things that you're instructing them and empowering them to do?
[00:11:04] Tara Antonipillai: Here is the thing about, you know, leadership that I think is really tricky: is that leaders are also human beings facing some of the same challenges, including challenges to the amount of time they have.
So what we really focus on, particularly with law firm leaders are, " What are the things that we can do in a limited amount of time?" So one of the most common framing and common questions that I get from leaders is, "Listen, like, I really do have to sometimes say, 'I do not have time to talk right now.' Like I have a motion to argue, I have to be in court, there's a deadline that I have to meet." So even that, right? How do you say that while still saying, " This is important and I want you to have someone to talk to." So that's a really good example of what the behavior is and what the communication is that supports that.
So instead of saying like, "Hey, I really care about you but I have to go," we're making a specific time to follow up. And one of the things that, that we see in the research is that the thing that undermines sense of empathy the most in the workplace is when people don't follow through. So if they say, "We're a very empathetic workplace. We really care about you," but then there's no follow-up or someone says, "I'm too busy. I really care about that. I'd like to talk to you about it later," and then there's no later. So we try to kind of bring those pieces in a real practical way and say, " Okay, like, this is what matters."
[00:12:45] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's a really good point. It's such a small thing, but just that follow-up. So yeah, I can really see that.
I wanted to talk about — and you actually mentioned it right at the beginning — the loneliness. I wonder if the pandemic-- it just seems like the pandemic may have really increased that. Is that the case that the pandemic really, accelerated an already existing issue within this country in general and then you've got a profession where you're often just sitting in an office by yourself hammering away at a computer.
[00:13:16] Tara Antonipillai: Exactly. I mean, the pandemic certainly seems to have exacerbated it, but it probably exacerbated what was already a trend.
So if you look at the trend lines from 30 years ago to now in terms of, you know, how many people do you have in your circle that you could call on in an emergency? That could drive you to the hospital? Those numbers have been downtrending over the course of time. So, there's that.
And then there is also-- And you can look at different factors, probably you know, mobile devices, social media, all of those types of things are kind of driving that loneliness exacerbated by the pandemic.
And then there's that work from home aspect is very challenging, too. It's a highly divisive topic within law firms. People want the flexibility to work from home, but it also is a driver of loneliness and lack of connection, which we just, we know it's not good for people's mental health, their physical health, and we also know that it's not good for making people feel like they like their jobs. It's an interesting challenge that I think lawyers and people who have high-demand jobs where they're, kind of, working in their office, but you add the remote work onto that and it's a challenge.
[00:14:39] Michelle Calcote King: How have you seen mental health and well -being impact a firm's ability to grow business and revenue? And I really almost hate to ask that question but, you know, we're all in business to make money. So you know I also think it's a fair one and I'm sure law firm leaders ask you that.
[00:15:01] Tara Antonipillai: This is an interesting topic and I'm really not an expert in, you know, the statistics that go behind productivity. But there is, obviously, a general connection between mental and physical health and performance and capacity.
The other thing that we see in the research quite extensively is how big of an impact your colleagues, your people at work, your boss at work have on your mental health and your well-being. So we know that, for example, when you look at who has an impact on your mental health, your boss at work, your manager has as big or bigger of an impact as your spouse and your doctor.
[00:15:48] Michelle Calcote King: Wow.
[00:15:48] Tara Antonipillai: So that's a really significant impact. And so it kind of matters what that relationship looks like. It also impacts things like, you know, mental health impacts tremendously, things like engagement and creativity and how well people work together collegiality, right? So I think it's impacting every aspect of business.
[00:16:11] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. It seems like an obvious one to me. So yeah, it seems like an obvious correlation. I'm glad that it's becoming more and more talked about.
So as we are in this month of May, what is something you want to make sure that law firms are thinking about? What's that lesson you want to make sure that law firm leaders or lawyers understand about well-being and mental health?
[00:16:35] Tara Antonipillai: To me, the most important thing that I would say is that what you do matters. So there are things that are effective, and then there are also strategies and programs that people try that are not particularly effective. It doesn't mean they're bad, it just means they're not necessarily going to move the needle a tremendous amount.
[00:17:02] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. That's great. Well, thank you so much for joining us.
So we have been talking to Tara Antonipillai-- Have I murdered it? Did I get it right?
[00:17:10] Tara Antonipillai: Antonipillai but that's--
[00:17:12] Michelle Calcote King: Antonipillai.
[00:17:13] Tara Antonipillai: Yes. [laughs] Close enough.
[00:17:15] Michelle Calcote King: I promise listeners we went over this before--
With Cultivate and also she's on the board of directors of the Institute for Well-Being in Law.
So thank you very much for joining us and if they wanted to reach out to you and learn more about your programs or just kind of discuss the issues, where should they go?
[00:17:32] Tara Antonipillai: So you can reach me through my website at Cultivate.Center. And then the Institute for Well-Being in Law, we are at LawyerWellBeing.net, and you can actually find all of the information for Well-Being Week in Law there as well.
[00:17:50] Michelle Calcote King: Thank you so much.
[00:17:51] Tara Antonipillai: Thanks
[00:17:54] Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Spill the" Ink, a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click "Subscribe" to get future episodes.
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