The legal industry isn’t known for its trailblazing progress on the diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) front — but it is improving. Many law firms are integrating DEI strategy into their core business model, and the benefits of this shift are touching nearly every area, from prospecting and marketing to recruitment and talent development.
In this episode, Lee Watts joins us to talk about her new role as Director of Diversity, Equity & Inclusion at Bass, Berry & Sims. She discusses the firm’s strategy and reflects on how DEI influences a firm’s brand, reputation and competitive advantage.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn
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Who Lee Watts is
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About Bass, Berry & Sims
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How DEI has changed over the years
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DEI’s influence on law firm brand and reputation
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How to be a DEI advocate within your own circle of influence
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The importance of analyzing all business matters through a DEI lens
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The potential impacts of emerging lawsuits targeting firm DEI initiatives
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About Bass, Berry & Sims’ active programs, including its affinity groups and educational partnerships
About our featured guest
Lee Ashby Watts is the Director of Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DEI) at Bass, Berry & Sims. She works to advance diversity, equity and inclusion and to support the recruitment, retention and advancement of underrepresented lawyers and professionals. Lee has over 20 years of experience in the legal industry, helping law firms, attorneys and legal professionals develop and implement strategic plans.
Lee brings a keen understanding of communications and client service, having worked in legal marketing and business development for most of her career. Prior to joining Bass, Berry & Sims, she led a consulting firm where she coached, trained and consulted with hundreds of leaders. Previously, she served in a variety of roles within law firms, including as the chief marketing officer at global law firm Smith, Gambrell & Russell, LLP for nearly a decade.
Lee is a certified business development coach as well as a frequent facilitator and speaker, addressing personal branding, public speaking, marketing, diversity and inclusion. She sits on the board of the Legal Marketing Association Southeast and the nonprofit organization Kate’s Club. She is also a member of the professional women’s network CHIEF, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Incorporated, Junior League of Atlanta and ColorComm. Lee is an Ohio University graduate and earned her MBA from Georgia State University.
Resources mentioned in this episode
Sponsor for this episode
This episode is brought to you by Reputation Ink.
Founded by Michelle Calcote King, Reputation Ink is a public relations and content marketing agency that serves professional services firms of all shapes and sizes across the United States, including corporate law firms and architecture, engineering and construction (AEC) firms.
Reputation Ink understands how sophisticated corporate buyers find and select professional services firms. For more than a decade, they have helped firms grow through thought leadership-fueled strategies, including public relations, content marketing, video marketing, social media, podcasting, marketing strategy services and more.
To learn more, visit www.rep-ink.com or email them at info@rep-ink.com today.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Lee Watts: Future-proofing your firm and really thinking forward, you're going to make sure and understand that moving forward, it's not just white men who are running organizations and companies. It's diverse. And the legal profession needs to keep up.
[00:00:17] Announcer: Welcome to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink, where we feature experts in growth and brand visibility for law firms and architecture, engineering and construction firms. Now, let's get started with the show.
[00:00:34] Michelle Calcote King: Hey everyone! I'm Michelle Calcote King. I'm the host of this podcast and I'm also the Principal and President of Reputation Ink. We're a public relations and content marketing agency for law firms and other professional services firms. To learn more, go to rep-ink.com.
Today we're going to be talking about diversity and inclusion in the legal industry. And as many of you know, in this industry, it's not really known for its diversity and inclusion historically, but there's a lot happening to change that.
But, you know, to give you a snapshot, there's about 1.3 million active lawyers in the U. S., and about 81-percent of those are white. So there's a lot of room for improvement in this industry, and it's a critical industry to have diversity, equity and inclusion there.
And, you know, these DEI initiatives are increasing in quantity and quality across the legal sector but there's a long way to go. So I'm really excited to have a known expert in this area join us today.
Lee Watts is joining us. She's the Director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at Bass, Berry & Sims. She's been in the legal industry for 20 years. I'm very lucky to serve with her on the Legal Marketing Association Southeast Board. And she also was the chief marketing officer at a very large firm for many years. So, welcome.
[00:01:51] Lee Watts: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's so funny cause we've worked together in some capacity and now I'm actually a guest on your podcast. So I'm very honored and privileged to be here.
[00:02:03] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah! I'm excited to talk to you about it.
And I think it's-- You have a great perspective from having been a CMO at a big firm for many years, and really kind of that balance of the two roles. So let's start with if you can tell me about-- This is a new role for you, this DEI role, tell me about it and what your role is there and what you're aiming to accomplish.
[00:02:22] Lee Watts: Yes. So ironically I'm not sure I actually saw myself going into a role like this and, quite frankly, wasn't sure how qualified I would be. However, now that I'm in the role and I understand what the charge of the role is and the purpose, I feel like my background has been perfect to lead me into this.
And part of it is the collaborating with all parts of the firm to make sure diversity, equity and inclusion is part of the conversation and that we're looking at every aspect of the firm through a DEI lens. And so working in marketing, business development at another law firm where I was in all types and all corners and different tables of the firm; I understand how the firm makes money, I understand how the firm works, that kind of thing. And so I'm able to bring that perspective into this DEI role. So that is what my job description is really right now is really to bring DEI to the table, as many tables of the firm, and really create a strategic plan for DEI at Bass Berry & Sims.
[00:03:36] Michelle Calcote King: Love that.
So in your view, how has DEI changed over the years? I mean, obviously from not even being a conversation at all to being a big conversation, but what are some other ways it's changed?
[00:03:48] Lee Watts: I think it's changed from-- Because even in my previous roles in marketing and business development, DEI was kind of like a little... It was, you know, like, it was a line item. And it's gone from filling out surveys and providing numbers to, again, more of a strategy, a differentiator, a competitive advantage, a point in retaining talent and developing talent.
It's really been helping with the business model of a firm.
[00:04:19] Michelle Calcote King: We had a program-- I think it was-- Was it earlier this year? This year's kind of getting away from me, but where we looked at the intersection of marketing and DEI. I'd love to understand how you see, you know, as a brand strategist and marketer, how DEI influences a law firm's brand and reputation.
[00:04:37] Lee Watts: Yes. So in various ways.
So, obviousl, the most obvious way is the voice of the client. How do our clients see our firm and is their voice represented in our firm? So if you are future-proofing your firm and really thinking forward, you're going to make sure and understand that moving forward, it's not just white men who are running organizations and companies. It's diverse and the legal profession needs to keep up.
So are we making sure that those voices, those faces, those perspectives are representative in our firm? So from a recruiting and from a talent and talent development standpoint, are we growing leaders?
And sometimes if DEI is not the pulse of the firm, we lose our DEI talent because we're not relating to them, we're not understanding the nuances and making sure that they're developing and not being overlooked.
Going back to your previous question about how DEI has changed, you know, first it was just diversity. It was just keeping the numbers. Then we looped in equity and then we looped in inclusion and now it's also about belonging. So I think that, you know, all of that has to be a part of it. And then, again, looping it back to the client and the brand.
So if we want to retain clients? So that's one part from the marketing and BD standpoint. And then also understanding from an equity standpoint, not everyone comes to the table with the same skill sets, the same connections to develop business and make partner and be visible in a firm. So how do we help everyone kind of, like, compete at the same level? So that is part of the DEI strategy as well in a law firm.
[00:06:35] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that addition of belonging is new and I love to see it.
So you presented at the recent LMA Southeast Regional Conference about using your own circle of influence to be a DEI advocate. And I'd loved for you to share some of your, kind of, key takeaways from that session. What are some actionable things people can do to use their own circle of influence?
[00:06:57] Lee Watts: Yes. So I love that session. It was, like, lots of quick tidbits that I hope everyone was able to take some things away from. So a few things that really stood out...
Let's just start with some basic things with events. So, fortunately or unfortunately, a lot of marketing professionals are involved in event planning. And from the development of the graphics to how we plan out menus to looking at dates that don't offend people because you're planning it on a, you know, one of the holidays, to even accessibility. Are we asking people? From a visual standpoint, from a hearing standpoint, do they feel safe? Are they getting their needs met? So thinking about all those aspects. If we want a DEI culture at our firm, like, always just making it part of the conversation because we're always thinking about how are other people experiencing us?
The other aspects that I really love of how we can loop DEI into our lens and everyone can be part of it is really understanding how we might be able to collaborate with clients. If we are working on a BD plan, a prospective, a pitch, a RFP, even if they didn't ask the question, have we gone to their website? Have we researched to see if this is important to them? So from a competitive standpoint, can we find a way to be sticky with that client and do some type of DEI project together? Or recruit together? Or a fellowship together? Or something like that. So thinking about that as well.
Also, again from a DEI perspective, if you're a BD person, maybe you have a woman, a Hispanic attorney that may not feel seen or visible. How can we bring more visibility to them? How can we pitch them for other articles or quotes and speaking engagements? How can we find lists and awards that they can be part of? Because part of it is just, you know--
Lawyers are talented. They're smart. Can't get away from that. But if nobody knows about it and you're the best hidden secret, then that's a problem. So how can we bring more visibility to that attorney that may be hidden, but we know about them, but we can help push them forward?
So those are a few things that came out in that session.
[00:09:29] Michelle Calcote King: I love that. Yeah. Well, and we see some of those things as small because, you know, like making sure your events don't fall on critical holidays for certain groups. But that's a big deal. Yeah. And if you overlook that, your bigger quote unquote, "bigger" things will not have a lot of credibility with those audiences. So getting that right is sort of foundational. So I love that kind of advice.
Let's talk about some of these lawsuits that have come out targeting diversity programs. How do you see them impacting how firms structure and market their DEI initiatives?
[00:10:06] Lee Watts: So just from doing some research and also just my informal research, talking to other people in the market, surprisingly-- Because I was freaking out.
[00:10:17] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. Same. Yeah.
[00:10:18] Lee Watts: Surprisingly, a lot of firms are saying, "We're still committed, and we're going to double down on some of the things that we're doing," but I think people are reviewing the language, fully making sure we're opening up the language and being more creative but fair with if we're offering different fellowships and scholarships and things like that for us. So I think it's just forcing DEI professionals and law firms to really get more creative and think in a different way. And I think that's good. So.
[00:10:54] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. I kind of see that. I've been following it. When I first saw a couple of news stories I thought, "Oh my goodness," you know? Yeah. But it's great to see-- I don't see a slow down in law firms talking about diversity, putting these programs out which is great.
So let's talk about what your firm specifically does to improve its DEI and a couple of things when we were researching stood out. For example, your educational partnerships with some of these universities. Talk to me about that and what do these programs aim to achieve?
[00:11:25] Lee Watts: Yes. So I will say as a side note to this that I am literally dead smack in the middle of kind of rewriting our DEI plan. So some of the things that may come up, I'm either highlighting and doubling down on, or some may kind of not go away, but, you know--
[00:11:43] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
[00:11:44] Lee Watts: --I won't focus on as much. But the educational piece is really critical because we want to be attractive and we want to compete and bring the best talent we can to the firm, whether it's diverse or non-diverse.
And I shouldn't say diverse or non-diverse because one of the key things I'm really working on as a strategy is to get our language right. Systematic changes in any organization is--
[00:12:11] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, language is important. Absolutely.
[00:12:13] Lee Watts: Language is important.
So underrepresented attorneys or law students, we want to make sure that they feel like they can get the support that they need, that they know us, like us.
We know that in marketing know, like, and trust is critical. So part of that is yes, joining with law firms, making sure they know the brand, they know that we're here and that we're bringing value to them just like we would for a client, you know, and so we're being serious about that, yes.
[00:12:43] Michelle Calcote King: Absolutely.
The other programs. I wanted to talk to you about is the Mansfield Rule, and also I saw that y'all are a member of the Law Firm Antiracism Alliance. And I'll be completely frank, I hadn't heard of the Law Firm Antiracism Alliance. So I'd obviously heard about Mansfield, but can you tell me about those two organizations? Especially the one I don't know about just because I'm curious about it.
[00:13:03] Lee Watts: I haven't done a lot with the Antiracism Alliance yet, but it is part of, again, just looking at our policies, what we're doing, making sure that we're not doing things that we're unaware that could be blocking and not providing the best experiences for attorneys.
So it's really, just again, looking at our policies, looking at how we're operating, and taking a stand and saying, "We are committed to being intentional about opening up doors and making sure that we're being inclusive to all people."
And then, of course, we know a lot about the Mansfield Rule. We're so happy that we're officially a part of that. We made it, and so we're moving forward into another year and really looking at all of our policies, how we recruit, looking at our numbers.
And I think it's important to also say-- I heard a quote the other day about data never changed someone's mind. Storytelling does. And so I think Mansfield helps us with the data. And I think your job, my job, others putting the stories with the data is what really creates change.
[00:14:20] Michelle Calcote King: A hundred percent. Yeah.
[00:14:21] Lee Watts: So thankful to Mansfield in helping us keep up with the data and then our jobs in helping to tell the story.
[00:14:27] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, that's a really good point.
You need the data, but you've got to be able to take it and tell the story of the data in a way that actually gets people to understand what it means and how it has impact on the firm. That kind of thing.
And the other thing I wanted-- I read about where your six Affinity Groups for different minority populations. Tell me about those.
[00:14:46] Lee Watts: Yes. So we have the Affinity Groups. Each of them has kind of a different, you know, flavor to it, which is great, and have different initiatives and things that are important to them. Part of the strategy moving forward is a little bit of a relaunch of those groups and making sure to some degree there are some things that we're all on the same page with. We are part of one organization so making sure that I'm helping them shine and be the best that they can be.
And part of that is fortunately or unfortunately we all know this, attorneys are there to bill hours. So they're not expected to make agendas and do all these event planning for their affinity groups or any committee that they're on. So I have to come in or my team and make sure that we help them do those things so that they can succeed. We want affinity groups to help be part of the recruiting differentiator that--
[00:15:44] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
[00:15:45] Lee Watts: I heard someone say this and I thought it was brilliant that... Because I also heard someone say, like, affinity groups can be exclusive, right? And then I heard someone else say, but affinity groups can be compared to a sorority or a fraternity on a really big campus. It's not that we're trying to not be part of that campus and that university, but sometimes you just need a smaller group to kind of come and check in with--
[00:16:14] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah.
[00:16:14] Lee Watts: --to find your tribe and find your people.
So we want to make sure, again, from a recruiting standpoint, from a retention standpoint, you have that safe space. And so those affinity groups, that's kind of the goal of those.
[00:16:28] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah, I could see-- And I'm not a DEI expert at all, but I could see how that would be kind of critical to the belonging aspect. So when you are an underrepresented group and finding other people who feel like home a little bit to you in this new place would be critical to your ability to kind of advance and feel like you belong.
If you could leave our listeners with one thought-- And this is always such a big question to ask, but I like to ask it.
So you know, DEI is your new role, and if there are people out there wanting to learn more, what do you want them to take away from this conversation?
[00:17:02] Lee Watts: Hmm. That's a good question.
[00:17:05] Michelle Calcote King: I know. Throw the big one at the end there.
[00:17:09] Lee Watts: I think the, the big piece to take away is, I think going back to some of the systemic changes that have to happen and... Language matters. Really reviewing the language from a marketing standpoint, from just an internal standpoint.
And then secondly, everyone is part of the DEI program because we're all diverse. It's not just ethnicity, it's not gender, it's not your sexual orientation. It could be how you grew up, if you're first generation. There's so many ways that we're diverse, and I think part of making real change with the DEI initiatives is to realize that all of us have aspects of diversity.
[00:18:00] Michelle Calcote King: Absolutely.
[00:18:01] Lee Watts: Once everyone grasps that and realizes, " Hey, I'm part of this, too," then we can all work together on it. But if we keep thinking it's for them over there then it's never gonna get anywhere. So really that intersectionality of identities is really important.
[00:18:20] Michelle Calcote King: Yeah. I love that. Well, and I love that it's an inclusive factor.
[00:18:24] Lee Watts: Yes.
[00:18:24] Michelle Calcote King: 'Cause I think that can be a negative reaction by some to feel excluded from it. But really we're all part of it and it's about honoring and recognizing those differences, and how can we all work effectively better together? So that's great.
Well, I'm very excited to have you on here. So we've been talking to Lee Watts of Bass, Barry & Sims. So if anyone wants to get in touch with you now what's the best way to do that?
[00:18:46] Lee Watts: Well, you know what? Let's just stick with LinkedIn.
[00:18:49] Michelle Calcote King: LinkedIn. Yeah, that's the place, right?
[00:18:51] Lee Watts: Lee Ashby Watts. Follow me on LinkedIn. Yes. Yes.
[00:18:55] Michelle Calcote King: Well, thank you so much.
[00:18:56] Lee Watts: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:19:00] Announcer: Thanks for listening to "Spill the Ink," a podcast by Reputation Ink. We'll see you again next time and be sure to click "Subscribe" to get future episodes.
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